hate to break it to you but they already started this is not an option.maky355 wrote:I can't grasp why they don't allow us to use windows folder shortcuts and why oh why we can't simply stop indexing??
Just make it optional ON, or OFF and be done with it..Everyone pleased..
Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!
Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!
Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!
yeah, it was in this very thread... explained by Ableton staff.skatr2 wrote:hate to break it to you but they already started this is not an option.maky355 wrote:I can't grasp why they don't allow us to use windows folder shortcuts and why oh why we can't simply stop indexing??
Just make it optional ON, or OFF and be done with it..Everyone pleased..
there were multiple posts about it, if i'm not mistaken.
Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!
tsk tsk tsk...
Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!
drez wrote:I'm just guessing, but I would assume its because...they can'tmaky355 wrote:I can't grasp why they don't allow us to use windows folder shortcuts and why oh why we can't simply stop indexing??
Just make it optional ON, or OFF and be done with it..Everyone pleased..
IMO, Ableton made a decision to move to the embedded database for browsing. Period. They did not architect the new browser to accept the previous method of browsing. It is "wired", if you will, to the database. The UI, the underlying methods to retrieve this file locations in Live and display them to you, etc. Its just not there. There's no "switch" to flip. They would have to re-architect and re-code the browser, something that would take a considerable time and resources. Architecture changes and these decisions happened months ago and they take months to change.
They also probably realized during the beta period that they had some massive tuning issues with the embedded database/data model/indexing structure/sql configuration/etc when people with large sample libraries had to insert data into the database. A business decision had to be made:
1. Ableton believes in the new database architecture and feel with proper tuning they can get through these data loading issues.
2. They have to delay the release and rewrite/rearchitect the browser and file management to work in Live 9 like Live 8.
3. A hybrid solution: They tune the database now to alleviate most of the issues with speed and design a way to integrate a Live 8 "like" method of browsing within the Live 9 architecture to fix workflow issues for certain users that like the previous browsing methods.
I think they are going with 3.
Live 9.0.3b1 just came out and the release notes say that they have a bugfix for scanning folders containing a huge amout of files ould take longer than necessary. I think they have changed the way they bulk load data into the database (there are a ton of ways, and well documented ways, to optimize this process). This is a quick win for them (if it works) and then they can focus on rewriting some portions to help with workflow issues.
Just spit ballin
The solution is plain simple : continue indexing in the background but allow to browse the whole structure even if background indexer has not finished its work ...
If ableton stops at that bugfix :
"Scanning folders containing a huge amount of files could take longer than necessary"
then they are just missing the important point.
Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!
nothing is ever as simple as you make it sound. they flat out said a browser is not going to be implemented outside of the indexer. period. chances are they can't allow this functionality without impacting the indexer.androids wrote:drez wrote:I'm just guessing, but I would assume its because...they can'tmaky355 wrote:I can't grasp why they don't allow us to use windows folder shortcuts and why oh why we can't simply stop indexing??
Just make it optional ON, or OFF and be done with it..Everyone pleased..
IMO, Ableton made a decision to move to the embedded database for browsing. Period. They did not architect the new browser to accept the previous method of browsing. It is "wired", if you will, to the database. The UI, the underlying methods to retrieve this file locations in Live and display them to you, etc. Its just not there. There's no "switch" to flip. They would have to re-architect and re-code the browser, something that would take a considerable time and resources. Architecture changes and these decisions happened months ago and they take months to change.
They also probably realized during the beta period that they had some massive tuning issues with the embedded database/data model/indexing structure/sql configuration/etc when people with large sample libraries had to insert data into the database. A business decision had to be made:
1. Ableton believes in the new database architecture and feel with proper tuning they can get through these data loading issues.
2. They have to delay the release and rewrite/rearchitect the browser and file management to work in Live 9 like Live 8.
3. A hybrid solution: They tune the database now to alleviate most of the issues with speed and design a way to integrate a Live 8 "like" method of browsing within the Live 9 architecture to fix workflow issues for certain users that like the previous browsing methods.
I think they are going with 3.
Live 9.0.3b1 just came out and the release notes say that they have a bugfix for scanning folders containing a huge amout of files ould take longer than necessary. I think they have changed the way they bulk load data into the database (there are a ton of ways, and well documented ways, to optimize this process). This is a quick win for them (if it works) and then they can focus on rewriting some portions to help with workflow issues.
Just spit ballin
The solution is plain simple : continue indexing in the background but allow to browse the whole structure even if background indexer has not finished its work ...
If ableton stops at that bugfix :
"Scanning folders containing a huge amount of files could take longer than necessary"
then they are just missing the important point.
Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!
Yeap, it's my guessing also, and some heads will roll as well since they did not face the problem early enough.drez wrote:maky355 wrote: 1. Ableton believes in the new database architecture and feel with proper tuning they can get through these data loading issues.
2. They have to delay the release and rewrite/rearchitect the browser and file management to work in Live 9 like Live 8.
3. A hybrid solution: They tune the database now to alleviate most of the issues with speed and design a way to integrate a Live 8 "like" method of browsing within the Live 9 architecture to fix workflow issues for certain users that like the previous browsing methods.
I think they are going with 3.
The question is if the architecture they have choosen is capable to find this balance?
As mentioned several times by other guys here, it's the freedom of everybody to follow this new route or to switch to another DAW. I'm on hold with Live9, but I cannot wait with the music production, and before I stuck within 6 months time I made a decision and bought and learn another DAW (guessing? )) After 7 years Ableton gave me a hard nugget, so before I listen to 40min harddisc noises everyday, I go parallel.
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!
You can keep using 8. Why 9 or Switch immediately?
Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!
64 bits and Push ...pencilrocket wrote:You can keep using 8. Why 9 or Switch immediately?
Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!
64 bits is on 8 now. from what I understand, the reason push works with live 9 and not with 8 its partially because of the database. so essentially you just need to see where your priorities lie.androids wrote:64 bits and Push ...pencilrocket wrote:You can keep using 8. Why 9 or Switch immediately?
Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!
Link, or it didn't happen.H20nly wrote:yeah, it was in this very thread... explained by Ableton staff.
there were multiple posts about it, if i'm not mistaken.
Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!
One wrinkle I see with this: Say Ableton allows you to add something in the project that you browsed to outside of the database and Live continues to index in the background. How does Live then change those references to what is stored in the database after indexing is complete?androids wrote: The solution is plain simple : continue indexing in the background but allow to browse the whole structure even if background indexer has not finished its work ...
If ableton stops at that bugfix :
"Scanning folders containing a huge amount of files could take longer than necessary"
then they are just missing the important point.
What if they could get the indexing down to a few minutes or less instead of many many minutes? Would that be acceptable?
There are best practices for inserting thousands and thousands of rows of data into a database and lots of them depend on different things: how many index's you have so that when you add a record, does it also update those index's at the same time or does it insert the data and THEN reindex? What do you do with record updates? How about reads? Are their queries optimized and do they read with no lock (dirty reads) or do they lock while reading and now the table can't index because another process locked the table?
There are sooooo many scenarios. The important thing is there are TONS of resources available for database optimization. Its just data. Lots of people make a living off tuning and creating better database models. Ableton can get, and I'm sure IS getting, the resources they need to make this work.
That said, has anyone tested 9.0.3b1 to see the difference?
http://www.soundcloud.com/dreznicek
MacBook M1 Pro Max, 64Gig RAM, 4TB internal SSD, Live 11, Push1/2/3, Reason, VST O'Plenty
MacBook M1 Pro Max, 64Gig RAM, 4TB internal SSD, Live 11, Push1/2/3, Reason, VST O'Plenty
Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!
Heresp0bjogu wrote:Link, or it didn't happen.H20nly wrote:yeah, it was in this very thread... explained by Ableton staff.
there were multiple posts about it, if i'm not mistaken.
http://www.soundcloud.com/dreznicek
MacBook M1 Pro Max, 64Gig RAM, 4TB internal SSD, Live 11, Push1/2/3, Reason, VST O'Plenty
MacBook M1 Pro Max, 64Gig RAM, 4TB internal SSD, Live 11, Push1/2/3, Reason, VST O'Plenty
Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!
sp0bjogu wrote:Link, or it didn't happen.H20nly wrote:yeah, it was in this very thread... explained by Ableton staff.
there were multiple posts about it, if i'm not mistaken.
if you were my neighbor I'd come click the mouse for you
Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!
Great, thanks!drez wrote:Heresp0bjogu wrote:Link, or it didn't happen.H20nly wrote:yeah, it was in this very thread... explained by Ableton staff.
there were multiple posts about it, if i'm not mistaken.
Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!
su wrote:sp0bjogu wrote:Link, or it didn't happen.H20nly wrote:yeah, it was in this very thread... explained by Ableton staff.
there were multiple posts about it, if i'm not mistaken.
if you were my neighbor I'd come click the mouse for you
thanks drez.