Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

[jlgrimes]

no,
the excitement of live has worn off and as i begin to listen i can't help but start to listen and agree with those that complain about the sound engine. sorry, but FOR ME, it does sound a little weaker than logic or tools. but hey, they don't have session view which is the truth of live FOR ME. I've been going back to logic more and more. i guess live is the best for controllerism but after a few years, that shit gets boring.

I used to think Live had sound quality issues but actually many of my best mixes come from Live.

The main thing about Lives sound quality is that its warp engines isn't the best in fidelity. If you are not warping, it is fairly transparent.

[BoddAH]

I have never understood this whole deal with supposed "sound quality" of DAWs.

I come from Reason and people told the sound quality "sucked" all the time and now it seems to be the case with the Live community too.

The truth I believe (I may be wrong in that case point it out) is that EVERY major DAW handles Audio like a standard digital signal with a fixed, user definable bit rate and bit depth. In other words, every DAW handles Audio in exactly the same way. This can easily be proven in fact since audio clips exported from different DAWs with inverted phases cancel each other out which proves they are perfectly identical. Science bitch!

The only thing that does have an impact on the sound are the native effects which all have their specific characters depending on the DAW and if you don't like a standard effect you can always use a VST, you don't have to change the whole f**king DAW.

[Anubis]

I'm underwhelmed. It three years to give us 64 bit? And a handful of features? Really?

[dazzer]

why not. it seems a good direction would be to improve the instant sound quality.

Abes asked me about it and I said it sounded fine, so they decided there was no need to pursue it any more.

[gosinisha]

custom commands... come on some commands have 3-4 keys, i'ts a primitive feature. custom commands bring a lot of workflow - 1 key commands!

[Dr_Hdt]

Not happy. Total disappointed about 9. Tried the 9 trial, it was crashing or not even starting and I think it burned my ram (was running ableton after live crash serveral times and I had to reset because the Live process could be killed. After that my pc wasn't starting anymore - 4 month young ram was burned)...I was sending 7 bug reports in that time. Anyway
The new features are a big pure joke. Curved automation (com'on we got 2013) & a crappy melodyn clone & a compressor everyone having already + unstablde PDC / no rerouting cause of PDC dumb coding / workflow killing with the dozen "back-to-arrangment" buttons / no Clip Volume/Pan automation anymore / worst browser I ever seen... I could go on like that.
Funny stuff happend in the trial project. The other day everthing was way off time, PDC on/off - then it worked again. Minutes later again. Had to change the buffer size back and forth in the RME settings to get ableton working again..And I was just using 2-3 thrid party plugs with about ~30 tracks.
I jumped on the StudioOne ship last year and it was good decision, although I miss the clip automation/looping and midi plugins, but S1 is onto that. That is the most diffrent with Presonus. The support is really good. Actually the support answers!
The community is great and with the update it seems that the guys behind S1 really listen to feature request.
Well, I think after the L8 debacle, the guys at ableton running the company against a wall...
I'm still hoping to see, that they get their problems solved, because I loved the workflow and was used to that. But all I see is Push and updates that don't even start the app.

[kryptonitejesus]

Custom commands for Live is my job, gosinisha. Unfortunately they only currently exist for mac. I'm waiting for you pc boys to catch up!

Mine are not always 1 key, but they are always easy to do one handed, and easily customisable. They are mostly 2 key. Of course I use 1 key for critical things like Zoom In/Out and Draw Tool (draw tool now being 1 key by default in Live 9, I assume Ableton got that idea off me ).

My current Ableton Live list:

iKey commands:
Tutorial: Easy ways to control Ableton Live Part 3.

cmd 9 Open Live 9, hide Automap and focus on Live 9
cmd q9 Close Live 9 andAautomap
alt . Browser - show/hide, in Session and Arrange views at the same time
alt l Detail View - ditto
alt i Routing ditto
alt m Mixer ditto
alt s Sends - session only, they are always these in Arrange's mixer
alt r Returns - show/hide, in Session and Arrange views at the same time
alt o Overview ditto
alt t Track View - Session and Arrange views at the same time
alt C Clip View - Session and Arrange views at the same time
alt ctrl s Open custom (samples, can be anything) folder and focus in Content Pane
alt e Expand Note/Audio Editor to fill screen
alt ctrl e Collapse Note/Audio Editor
alt h Hide large EQ Eight/Spectrum window
cmd alt e Toggle Midi Envelope editor
alt d Device Slots
alt dd Device Menu
alt aa Automation Arm


alt 1 Focus in Browser
alt 2 Focus in Detail View
alt 3 Focus in main Session or Arrange View
alt 4 Focus in Mixer channel

F3 Zoom In
F4 Zoom Out

KeyRemap Mouse Keys (with custom script):
Tutorial: Easy ways to control Live Part 2

This is for replicating mouse movements via the keyboard.

???? and diagonal mouse movements using arrow keys and/or letters, right handed. I've not yet done a left handed version, but it would be very easy.

???? scrolling, left and right handed versions, with or without Mouse Keys on using arrow keys and/or letters.

u mouse click
o right click
n drag lock
. release lock

nobody wants to install 3rd party software to achieve this, especially when this is a half ass backwards way of routing it around.... cubase has had it for quite some time now built in.

[cotdagoo]

cubase has had it for quite some time now built in.

has had what exactly built in? Give us some examples of how Cubase does what I have done. I doubt you will find many.

http://www.macprovideo.com/hub/cubase/c ... n-cubase-6

[regretfullySaid]

It's starting to wear on me how much ram Live uses for a few synth tracks. My template is somewhat minimal: A drumrack with 8 cells of samplers (which means they should be using disk and not ram so that shouldn't ne an issue.)
3 midi tracks each holding 3 different midi effect racks that are routed to 3 tracks each holding 2 instrument racks. 1 vst takes up 1of those slots per track. They are light and professionally coded synths.
A group track of M4L devices to route midi and handle control surface.
The major factor that creates the bulk of ram are the synth tracks, approximately around 400 megs of ram.
Really for what I have there shouldn't be a total of almost 1.5 gigs of ram on start.
64-bit can be an issue because there are some things left out of 64-bit versions.

The other big problem is the weak midi spec. Some will know what I'm talking about.
I shouldn't have to resort to a M4L UDPSEND for multichannel midi i/o.

I really like the device/macro/rack customization and timestretch capabilities but other hosts are catching up to where Live's drawbacks are not so much a caveat as they are a reason to switch.

...and latency with external audio and some plugins as well....grrr

I've noticed that you can get ram down by minimizing Live.

[regretfullySaid]

[tommeehowat]

My biggest complaint if I had any is not so much with Live itself but Push.

When Live first hit the scene it was what everyone was using for Live performance but cause of the ability for improvisation and stability of the software itself.

Now Push hits the scene. We start hearing words like "workflow"? I've watched many videos of what are described as live performances but all I've seen are guys pressing buttons and scrolling through menus.

Yeh sure you can use user mode and create your own mappings and Max4Live integrates with it blah blah blah. But from what I have seen of user mode it takes a damn lot to get user mode setup to provide any visual feedback and light functions which would be a requirement for live performance. Yes all of this can no doubt be achieved with scripts and what not, but not being able to override mappings in instrument or drum rack mode?

I dunno, to me it just seems that Ableton is moving away from what Ableton used to be. Yes you cant continue to stay in the same spot but you can improve on your original guiding principals.

Granted it is great from a composition point of view and certainly gives Maschine a run for its money.

I'm happy the way Ableton's going, I'd like to see blank automation clips and save, import/export automation clips, and a trainseiant shaper device built in but I'm happy as I do not want to play live with the software just produce.

[mrdelurk]

Only Ableton knows what direction Ableton is going.

But if anyone cares what would make me happy is Ableton Live as a dedicated hardware box. By one of the guys whose goods last 25 years on average: Yamaha, Korg, Roland, or such. Even if it costs $$$$ like their boxes usually do. (You get what you pay for. If you are lucky.)

I'm sick and tired of @#$%! computers that will crash even if you try to make one dedicated to Ableton; because the HD with the OS will crash in roughly 5 years, or Windows will download an update that will make some features (or the whole computer) die, or the OS will conk out during normal use, or connecting a USB mixer or FireWire interface may tank the whole shiznit, and on - you simply can't count on a computer to keep working like a dedicated Yamaha, Korg or Roland box. Maybe I'm getting old, but I'm really, really, REALLY tired of this computer @#$%.

[Evengy]

Only Ableton knows what direction Ableton is going.

But if anyone cares what would make me happy is Ableton Live as a dedicated hardware box. By one of the guys whose goods last 25 years on average: Yamaha, Korg, Roland, or such. Even if it costs $$$$ like their boxes usually do. (You get what you pay for. If you are lucky.)

I'm sick and tired of @#$%! computers that will crash even if you try to make one dedicated to Ableton; because the HD with the OS will crash in roughly 5 years, or Windows will download an update that will make some features (or the whole computer) die, or the OS will conk out during normal use, or connecting a USB mixer or FireWire interface may tank the whole shiznit, and on - you simply can't count on a computer to keep working like a dedicated Yamaha, Korg or Roland box. Maybe I'm getting old, but I'm really, really, REALLY tired of this computer @#$%.

daw problems destroying my nerves every day :/ glitches, crashes, lost projects, lost sounds, missing samples, sync blablbalba

[Gregory Wells-King]

I've been using Live since about Version 6, I had 4 Le for a trial and loved it so much I upgraded within a month or so of starting out, since those early day's Live has definitely had it's dark months, though in Abletons defence it must have been difficult to separate out the massive amount of possible hard wear conflicts and failures of the users equipment from actual soft wear failings. To give you an example the early day's on this forum were filled with folks having problems with latency and noise quite often due to problems with hard wear or soundcards, though at the time you could have thought otherwise.

You have to face the fact the face of the music industry and music making has taken a huge leap across a digital gap that was present for years and years prior to software making a truly impactful mark on the face of the factory, and with it still goes the saying 'people often blame the equipment for lack of capacity or character which in fact they may be missing themselves in musicianship or skill. lets face facts if I was a rock solid guitar player and keyboardist I wouldn't need much more than Reaper and some simple outboard.

Live is qwerky, useable, customizable, clever, helpful and more as the saying goes 'The possibilities are endless' if doesn't help you, then sell it.

[jlgrimes]

Keep in mind this IS expensive software, does it actually feel like you've gotten proper value from it? (I don't want to hear from you pirating users who will give me glowing enthusiasm on how much you love it... after all, who DOESN'T love free stuff?)

I've been a user since the beginning of 8 and feel like I'm currently watching history repeat itself, but I'm just interested how you guys feel with the "improvements" and "changes" they've been incorporating into the workflow.

Personally I feel like there's been a major lack of attention paid to the major issues where it is needed the most, many major flaws were exposed during the lengthy beta testing for 9 and I honestly don't feel like anything was done about any of the issues addressed.

I feel like Abes has lost it's way and has haphazardly thrown together incomplete software in a quick-ditch attempt to coincide along with the OPTIONAL hardware release of Push which anyone who's super serious about arranging music will probably skip over.


Am I the only one who feels this way? I'm a bit jaded on the whole situation and have since bought Cubase 7 and haven't had any major issues whatsoever like some of the prevalent issues I'm constantly facing in 8/9.

I feel like Ableton is slowly becoming a child's toy with how watered down it's becoming.

Here's one of the major issues encountered on the forum that I don't feel has been given quite enough attention, unless I'm missing it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qGJEvtP0bQ)

p.s. oh, and what's up with that nag dialogue asking you to take a survey? Isn't this supposed to be 1/2 performance software and 1/2 production software? That shit doesn't pop-up mid mix does it?

I give the Abes a B+ overall.

IMO Ableton only has one glaring weakness which deals with its implementation of PDC. It's automation might be its second biggest weakness. Everything else tends to have at least reasonable workarounds.

If the Abes got that right I would easily give them an A+.

Sure they have other small weaknesses but overall Ableton still performs best for its niche which is creating not neccesarily fully mixing tracks. Maybe they are dropping the ball on Live performance issues but I never really used Ableton for that anyways.

9 wasn't a total flop. I like it better than 8 initially. To me I love the new Session Record button, the new effects do seem to sound better, Abelton always had a great piano roll IMO, probably not the most powerful, but highly usable.