basic compressor question, amplifying instead of ducking

[whitelobster]

I am fairly familiar with using Live's built in compressor for sidechaining, however to date I have only really used it for ducking a signal (ie. everytime the kick drum hits it makes the volume of another channel go down) my question is- IS THERE A WAY TO DO THE OPPOSITE, ie. everytime the kick drum hits it makes another channel swell up so that audio from the second channel only leaks out when the kickdrum is active rather than the silences in between kicks?

[The Northern Contingent]

Easiest way I can think of is to sidechain the gate plugin and switch on the 'reverse' button - this will then only let the volume through when the kick sounds. You can then use the release and attack dials to customise how sudden the effect starts and stops.

[Nokatus]

Even with the attack/hold/release control, a regular gate essentially only varies between two states. The benefit of doing this with the built-in compressor is the ability to make the volume swell in actual relation to the sidechain signal.

In principle, this would call for upward expansion, with a sidechain key input. However, you can get very nice results out of an ordinary downward compressing tool, sidechained, if you let it work on a phase reversed signal alongside the original. It works very well, actually.

In Live, on the track you want to control in relation to another signal's amplitude, insert an audio effect rack. Make two signal chains, one dry and the other one containing Utility with the signal phase reversed. You should now hear nothing, as the signals cancel themselves out. Think of the chain containing Utility as "amount of attenuation", and if both chains are at the same level, you hear nothing. If you turn the Utility chain down somewhat, you can set the level of how much signal gets through in any case.

Insert a compressor in the Utility chain and use its sidechain to receive a signal of your choosing. You can now regulate how much of the phase reversed signal gets through, controlled by the level of the key signal. Adjust the compressor parameters according to what you're after, and presto, you can now "ride" the original signal with the level of something else.

[3DW]

Have you tried setting up a ghost kick drum playing on the off beat? Side-chain to the muted ghost kick and the compressor will duck after your main kick.

[yur2die4]

I thought they added an expand mode to compressor.

I could have been dreaming haha

[The Northern Contingent]

Even with the attack/hold/release control, a regular gate essentially only varies between two states. The benefit of doing this with the built-in compressor is the ability to make the volume swell in actual relation to the sidechain signal.

In principle, this would call for upward expansion, with a sidechain key input. However, you can get very nice results out of an ordinary downward compressing tool, sidechained, if you let it work on a phase reversed signal alongside the original. It works very well, actually.

In Live, on the track you want to control in relation to another signal's amplitude, insert an audio effect rack. Make two signal chains, one dry and the other one containing Utility with the signal phase reversed. You should now hear nothing, as the signals cancel themselves out. Think of the chain containing Utility as "amount of attenuation", and if both chains are at the same level, you hear nothing. If you turn the Utility chain down somewhat, you can set the level of how much signal gets through in any case.

Insert a compressor in the Utility chain and use its sidechain to receive a signal of your choosing. You can now regulate how much of the phase reversed signal gets through, controlled by the level of the key signal. Adjust the compressor parameters according to what you're after, and presto, you can now "ride" the original signal with the level of something else.

Thanks man! I'll try this - never thought of doing it this way before. Regarding the expansion option on Live's new compressor I think this is right but wouldn't know how to apply it in this context. Any ideas?

[turnitto11]

Not sure about Live 8, but in Live 9 the compressor does come with an Expander mode. On the right hand side of the compressor plug in, there's a little box called "Expand". Boom. Done. I'm sure it works with the sidechain as well.

[Jack McOck]

Multiband dynamics also now has side-chaining, so that would also do the trick.

[Nokatus]

Thanks for reminding that those additional functions are available in the built-in compressors of Live 9

Still rocking Live 8 here.