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 Post subject: so many glitches in ableton 9
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:12 pm 

Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 10:58 pm
Posts: 7
please help. i can't deal with all this. i've been planning on getting ableton 9 cause its more and more difficult to purchase older versions at this point. so i decided to use the demo and have been working with it for about 10 days. here are some of the glitches i've found

1. no undo redo on 3rd party vsts.
2. this new pianoroll makes it unbelievably difficult to put notes where you actually want (not a glitch, apparently a feature)
3. often if i drag and drop a 3rd party synth during play the system freezes and shuts down. or
4. the audio skips, and glitches for a second before resuming (which maybe wouldn't be a big deal if it wasn't a daw made for live shows)
5. frequent dropouts, which i never had before. in the middle of recording it'll just drop out for a second and that's how the recording will playback.


i'm using the 32-bit version of live on a brand new vaio laptop with 8 gigs of ram, windows 8 and an m-16dx soundcard.there should be no lag as far as i can tell. i was using a mac with much weaker specs with ableton 8 earlier this year WITH the same soundcard and i had almost no problems.

but whenever i see other people complaining about how buggy the new ableton is all i see as responses are people saying they disagree or worse making fun of the poster ???. so can other people tell me the operating system computer and soundcard they're using and what problems they're having. maybe we can get a list together and if i'm not alone ableton will take notice and fix these issues.

side complaint. the browser was not broken and did not need fixing. it has a lag time now that the old one didn't.


Last edited by frostedcoco on Sun May 12, 2013 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: so many glitches in ableton 9
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:18 pm 

Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 10:58 pm
Posts: 7
also. when live 9 crashes it doesn't restore my session anymore. this honestly seems like a downgrade for a couple new effects and better max support.
also. it takes forever to get support online and when i call their helpline i literally never get through. it just says they're busy and hangs up on me.


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 Post subject: Re: so many glitches in ableton 9
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:51 am
Posts: 536
Location: The Antipodes
frostedcoco wrote:
also. when live 9 crashes it doesn't restore my session anymore. this honestly seems like a downgrade for a couple new effects and better max support.
also. it takes forever to get support online and when i call their helpline i literally never get through. it just says they're busy and hangs up on me.

I have better luck with the email support contact when logged into my account. I always get a prompt reply within 48 hours.
Regarding the piano roll issue, I might be dumb here, but what is the difference between Live 8 & 9 for this aspect of note editing (apart from the midi reverse & flip tools? I am not denying you may have had problems, but I have found the piano roll in 9 quite useable, what has changed for you compared to older versions?
I hope you can get some answers & solutions to your issues.

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 Post subject: Re: so many glitches in ableton 9
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:59 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 12590
artpunk wrote:
Regarding the piano roll issue, I might be dumb here, but what is the difference between Live 8 & 9 for this aspect of note editing (apart from the midi reverse & flip tools? I am not denying you may have had problems, but I have found the piano roll in 9 quite useable, what has changed for you compared to older versions?
I hope you can get some answers & solutions to your issues.


Hard snapping (snap to grid) was removed in L9 in favour of a dynamic system. It's effectively a "smart snap" which tries to guess if you want to drag notes into off grid positions through proximity, time and whether you cross a grid boundary, however I find it less precise than a hard (reliable) snap, with a key modifier for off grid notes.
I think its worse, because it is "automatic" and therefore unpredictable. It is likely to leave notes in unexpected off-grid positions. It is trying to guess what i want, rather than letting me use the perfect system of Live 8 where I choose. The user can't turn smart-snap off, and you can't turn hard snap on, in order to be fully in control again.

It's one of the two things that keeps me using L8. I guess it's un-noticeable to other people, but for me it's like driving with a rubber band. Imprecise and unpredictable, unpleasant. It seems odd that a basic feature like "snap" was removed, but there you go.

In competing DAWs with a smart-snap provision ... It is an option.

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Last edited by Angstrom on Sun May 12, 2013 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: so many glitches in ableton 9
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:11 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2002 2:18 am
Posts: 5897
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Angstrom wrote:
artpunk wrote:
Regarding the piano roll issue, I might be dumb here, but what is the difference between Live 8 & 9 for this aspect of note editing (apart from the midi reverse & flip tools? I am not denying you may have had problems, but I have found the piano roll in 9 quite useable, what has changed for you compared to older versions?
I hope you can get some answers & solutions to your issues.


hard snapping was removed in L9 in favour of a dynamic system which is likely to leave notes in unexpected off-grid positions. I've referred to it as "sloppy snap".
It's one of the two things that keeps me using L8. I guess it's un-noticeable to other people, but for me it's like driving with a rubber band. Imprecise and unpredictable, unpleasant. It seems odd that a basic feature like "snap" was removed, but there you go.


Oddly, and not to be contrarian, I much prefer the new "snappish" behaviour - much more like Logic's, which I'm familiar and comfortable with. I used to find MIDI editing in Live quite uncomfortable, but I find it to be much better now.

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 Post subject: Re: so many glitches in ableton 9
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:22 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 12590
Oh yes, I'm sure that many people will enjoy the new smart-snap,
and those people can use Live 9. I can't . I must use Live 8.

Smart snap would be a great option. In fact more snap options would be good.

But does it really make sense to remove to basic grid snap completely? Replace it completely?
Snap to grid is surely a basic operation, smart snap is an option on top of that! Surely?

I like the way Live 8 does it. Simple snapping with alt-drag off grid. Live 9 does not provide this at all, not an option. For me L9 is not usable because of this.

I am glad that some users like the new system, the single new way of enforced operation.
For me, if want basic hard snapping, snap to grid as I LIKE I must use Live 8.

Is basic snap so repulsive as an option?
By all means provide new methods. But taking away basic grid snap?
nobody seems to understand this.

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 Post subject: Re: so many glitches in ableton 9
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:57 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:51 am
Posts: 536
Location: The Antipodes
Angstrom wrote:
Hard snapping (snap to grid) was removed in L9 in favour of a dynamic system. It's effectively a "smart snap" which tries to guess if you want to drag notes into off grid positions through proximity, time and whether you cross a grid boundary, however I find it less precise than a hard (reliable) snap, with a key modifier for off grid notes.
I think its worse, because it is "automatic" and therefore unpredictable. It is likely to leave notes in unexpected off-grid positions. It is trying to guess what i want, rather than letting me use the perfect system of Live 8 where I choose. The user can't turn smart-snap off, and you can't turn hard snap on, in order to be fully in control again.

It's one of the two things that keeps me using L8. I guess it's un-noticeable to other people, but for me it's like driving with a rubber band. Imprecise and unpredictable, unpleasant. It seems odd that a basic feature like "snap" was removed, but there you go.

In competing DAWs with a smart-snap provision ... It is an option.


Thanks for explaining Angstrom, I honestly hadn't noticed that change in snap behaviour. I must be one of the people who it doesn't annoy (my style has always been kind of sloppy!) :D

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 Post subject: Re: so many glitches in ableton 9
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:25 pm 

Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 10:58 pm
Posts: 7
i agree with angstrom, the fact that the new implementations are mandatory makes no sense at all. i can't imagina noone bringing this up during beta-testing. it's starting to seem like ableton doesn't listen to its customers anymore. the new snap function, the new browser, these things should be options. live is meant to be used live, i've become comfortable with their old system and so i can do alot on the fly with it. they've essentially removed that for me. i find myself spending more time struggling to find a sound or write a melody than i ever used to. why fix something that isn't broken?

also 8 was good but it still had some weird snap to grid issues on the arrangement view just like 9 does. i can't tell you how much time i spend fixing the timing of a clip because for some reason live wants to put it half a second before or after where i placed it on the grid. sometimes i'll be halfway through a song before i realize all the timing issues that have been accumulated because of these subtle misplacements.

its unnerving. i like working quickly and seamlessly. thats what ableton used to do, but now i feel like im wasting my money.

also has anyone else had the problem with the third party vsts? its as if they don't register as part of the undo process. undo only changes live functions (moving things on the session or changes in ableton effects).


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 Post subject: Re: so many glitches in ableton 9
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 5:47 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:22 pm
Posts: 306
frostedcoco wrote:
i agree with angstrom, the fact that the new implementations are mandatory makes no sense at all. i can't imagina noone bringing this up during beta-testing. it's starting to seem like ableton doesn't listen to its customers anymore. the new snap function, the new browser, these things should be options.


Oh they were all brought up, those were some of the biggest threads on the beta testing forum, so it goes to show how much ableton listened during beta testing. I too will never understand their option aversion. If someone can understand how to use ableton, they arent a complete tard, they can understand a lengthier preferences/options screen. Why not change the defaults to these new methods, so users who wouldnt touch the options would never change them, but at least leave them in there.

I thought the third party thing depended more on the vst itself. Its not part of the vst standard for a host to implement undo/redo for a vst. Ableton may do some undo/redo if you have 'configured' that parameter for that vst so ableton is aware of it and can see changes made to it, otherwise it probably has no idea about the parameter. This is why all the u-he zynths for example have their own undo/redo buttons


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 Post subject: Re: so many glitches in ableton 9
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 6:37 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:50 pm
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Regarding the Note Editor, I prefer the new version that Live 9 has. Amaury (Ableton technical) said he agreed that it needed fixing for when you try to move a note vertically with a mouse. He may have hinted that they might make the whole thing an option, I'm not sure. I think it should be, but personally I have no problems with it. Partly because I would usually use arrow keys to move notes by full grid spacings. I rarely place notes off the grid manually, but what I do love is the ability to make notes a bit longer or shorter without having to hold cmd to disable the grid. This for me is a fantastic improvement.

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 Post subject: Re: so many glitches in ableton 9
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:22 pm
Posts: 306
yea I agree. I might be in the browser dislike camp, but I do like the new note editor stuff, I much prefer the automatic to using the shortcut, but thats just me. I can definitely see how someone would hate it.

Ableton just needs to get over their fear of options. Then again, depending on the code base, options could be incredibly difficult to implement


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 Post subject: Re: so many glitches in ableton 9
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:51 am
Posts: 502
Hi Frost,

Would like to investigate a few issues further:

3. often if i drag and drop a 3rd party synth during play the system freezes and shuts down. or
- Please tell me which and what version. I assume its all 32 bit plugins and no bridged VST's?

4. the audio skips, and glitches for a second before resuming (which maybe wouldn't be a big deal if it wasn't a daw made for live shows)
- Can you narrow down by doing what? When does this happen?

5. frequent dropouts, which i never had before. in the middle of recording it'll just drop out for a second and that's how the recording will playback.
- Is it in the recording (audio) also?. It sounds as if the Soundcard either driver or setup is problematic. It would be helpful with a comparison on the same system. The older mac you mentioned running live 9. Or comparing to Live 8 on your sony vaio. This would let us know if it is a new problem, or if we are looking at underpowered soundcards or buffer issues.

Best,
Mads


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 Post subject: Re: so many glitches in ableton 9
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:36 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:22 am
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I get the audio skips and glitches if I drag in a native device to a new track while audio is playing. I'm on 9.0.4. Definitely a little disconcerting for a program called "Live."

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 Post subject: Re: so many glitches in ableton 9
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:00 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:31 am
Posts: 429
SuburbanThug wrote:
I get the audio skips and glitches if I drag in a native device to a new track while audio is playing. I'm on 9.0.4. Definitely a little disconcerting for a program called "Live."


yes, and while i create new midi or audio tracks. when i delete clips or something like that this also happens.
i contacted ableton support today, i hope they will fix it.

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 Post subject: Re: so many glitches in ableton 9
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 2:31 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:22 am
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I'm also randomly getting the tempo slow downs and audio glitches one or two people mentioned. If I reopen a project sometimes it doesn't happen. I can't confirm whether this is due to me using the plugin Bazille which is in beta or maybe even alpha.

edit: Ok, this is only happening on projects that use Bazille (all of them in fact) but I wasn't having this problem prior to 9.0.4.

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