Audio crackling with new i7 build.

Sional · Post by **Sional** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:31 pm

Apologies Coupe70. For some strange reason when I put the quote in my reply it was credited to you instead of eyeknow and I did not notice the error.

Coupe70 · Post by **Coupe70** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:39 pm

no problem

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:40 pm

This is the first I've heard of it. Anyways, good luck to getting things solved.

Donnie · Post by **Donnie** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:29 am

Sional wrote:
Coupe70 wrote: I don't ever remember people not having a graphics card. It's a basic component of a PC build.
I have a self built PC solely for music. I purposely did not fit a graphics card because it is totally unnecessary and would only add to the unwanted heat/noise generated by the computer. I have a USB audio interface and my windows 7, 64 bit system can successfully run a Live 9 project with many VSTs (including Maschine and Monark) with no audio problems. I think that, if anything, one is more likely to have problems with a graphics card rather than just using the inbuilt graphics on the i5/7 cpus (please note that I am not talking about old motherboard based graphics). Obviously if a computer is to be used for more than just music (e.g. gaming) then a graphics card could indeed be necessary.
Out of interest, I did briefly install my son's high end graphics card into my computer to see if there was any improvement to be had from Live's performance. The only thing I could detect was an increase in system temperature and a consequent increase in fan noise.

Having a video card is more useful than you think, and will definitely improve the overall experience. It helps spread out the load and increases stability when running high res displays..its good practice when aiming for a stable system. The thinking that a video card is unnecessary and could cause more issues is a common misconception imo. I've only seen it help aside from the odd scenario, however a loud noisy gaming style card probably isn't the way to go

But I digress, one thing you might want to try is deleting Lives preferences config file and starting that from scratch. Ive had weird issues like this in the past that were resolved by doing that, either way its something else to try.

milosh · Post by **milosh** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:16 pm

I dont know if it was mentioned before in this thread but have you checked your DPC latency?
go here http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
It's all written there.

I had similar problem and it came out that it were DPC latency spikes.
The reason was in the software that shipped with the motherboard (GIGABYTE).
It was some kind of tweak software that should optimize the system/CPU and run in the background.
After uninstalling it everything started to work fine.
It might be some faulty driver as well.

I hope it helps

good luck

cheers

Evengy · Post by **Evengy** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:51 pm

as i said in the beginning i have exactly the same problem. NOTHING worked, including changing video card (gtx 260 instead of hd4600), deleting preferences, changing power supply, new templates, new hdd/ssd, uncountable bios tweaks, uncountable registry and windows tweaks, new drivers, new audio interface, powered usb hub, disconnecting all usb devices except audio interface and also i tried a complete NEW i7-pc from my company and there are the same problems.

i ripped my system down to 4-10ms (no spikes) and there are still glitches

be happy when you fixed your problems with a f***ing powered hub or something like that but some people like me are praying for a solution. i also had this problem with my i7-860 so i think i will ever have glitches because nobody from microsoft or intel care about this.

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:29 pm

Wow!

That really sucks. I run my buffer at 96 samples and I get straight performance. There has to be a reason for this, I'm not usually one of the lucky ones.

Coupe70 · Post by **Coupe70** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:45 pm

I can't believe it is a general Microsoft or Intel problem.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that you have serious problems and tried
really hard to solve them. But an i7 is nothing exotic and if it was an
i7/Windows problem the forum would be full of people having this problem.
As this is not the case there must be something else causing these problems.
Whatever it is...

Sional · Post by **Sional** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:30 pm

Donnie wrote:Having a video card is more useful than you think, and will definitely improve the overall experience. It helps spread out the load and increases stability when running high res displays..its good practice when aiming for a stable system.

The Intel HD 4600 graphics built into i5/7 CPUs is more than capable of running high definition video on a hi res monitor. Though it is not capable of providing the high frame rates that serious gamers demand.
I cannot think of a single reason why an external video card would be more stable than using the graphics on the CPU.
May I suggest that you run the Ableton performance test (i.e. see how many tracks you can have running without audio breakdown) on your system as is. Then remove your video card, repeat the test and compare results (which is something I have done on my own system).

anra · Post by **anra** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:13 pm

In my system with Integrated HD 4600 there does not need to be a lot of strain to CPU really, just a few channels might do it. If I click open a plugin - crackle, resize window up/down, move window left, right- crackling until I stop, timeline is scrolling on pianoroll - crackling, all things with animation/graphics. If I have project running with some crackling, and I switch to desktop. Crackling stops, on the desktop there are not anything moving. Hitting alt+tab back to Live crackle. Or Alt+tab switching any windows, crackle crackle. Just on time when I switch. Only option to play without crackles is to switch to desktop. I can run quite a low latency with guitar plugins and triggering MIDI VST/samplers with it in realtime without crackles - but only when I am seeing only desktop. Aero disabling or any graphics settings does not help. I don't have any external video cards to try, only option to test is to buy one.

Donnie · Post by **Donnie** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:28 pm

Sional wrote:
Donnie wrote:Having a video card is more useful than you think, and will definitely improve the overall experience. It helps spread out the load and increases stability when running high res displays..its good practice when aiming for a stable system.
The Intel HD 4600 graphics built into i5/7 CPUs is more than capable of running high definition video on a hi res monitor. Though it is not capable of providing the high frame rates that serious gamers demand.
I cannot think of a single reason why an external video card would be more stable than using the graphics on the CPU.
May I suggest that you run the Ableton performance test (i.e. see how many tracks you can have running without audio breakdown) on your system as is. Then remove your video card, repeat the test and compare results (which is something I have done on my own system).

You are not getting it, integrated graphics are shit. Its not that your system needs more power, its that the graphics device you are relying on is garbage. It doesn't matter what the specs or performance is. There is a reason they make motherboards with no onboard graphics, its because some people would never use that shit because they know it is shit and will put a card in it no matter what. Integrated graphics is for surfing the net and watching youtube, not professional use. Its not regarded for its stability or performance, its for cheapness. So having a better graphics card will result in overall better stability and performance because the graphics card itself is better. Its likely going to be a more solid device which is not using any shared resources on the mobo. Its not about power either, a mid-level card is fine, just not shitty integrated graphics. Its garbage. Your system will be more stable without it.

Beyond that, its not even worth arguing anymore...this is pretty standard stuff that has been proven time and time again. There are more factors at play here beyond a simple performance test when running X amount of channels in Live.

Donnie · Post by **Donnie** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:36 pm

I just want to clarify too that I don't think a new video card is a magic fix for the crackling problems described. I'm just saying that overall you will have less problems and a more stable system with a real card.

Coupe70 · Post by **Coupe70** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:39 pm

anra, maybe you didn't see my questions on the 2nd page:

Does it also happen with your internal soundcard ?
With disconnected Saffire ? With deactivated firewire ?
With disconnected mouse ? With deactivated USB ?
If yes I would try to borrow a graphic card somewhere...

M-bition · Post by **M-bition** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:07 pm

Also keep trying and searching for software settings causing the noise. Just google for moving mouse causes noise etc and you will find lots of possible solutions.

Sional · Post by **Sional** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:40 pm

Donnie wrote:You are not getting it, integrated graphics are shit. Its not that your system needs more power, its that the graphics device you are relying on is garbage. It doesn't matter what the specs or performance is. There is a reason they make motherboards with no onboard graphics, its because some people would never use that shit because they know it is shit and will put a card in it no matter what. Integrated graphics is for surfing the net and watching youtube, not professional use. Its not regarded for its stability or performance, its for cheapness. So having a better graphics card will result in overall better stability and performance because the graphics card itself is better. Its likely going to be a more solid device which is not using any shared resources on the mobo. Its not about power either, a mid-level card is fine, just not shitty integrated graphics. Its garbage. Your system will be more stable without it.

WOW!
Are these statements based on fact, heresy or just your opinion?
What tests have you carried out to confirm these statements or maybe you could direct me to a reputable website which supports your statements. I somehow think Intel technicians would not see things your way. Are you really saying "the graphics device you are relying on is garbage. It doesn't matter what the specs or performance is."!!!
By the way "shit", "garbage" and "shitty" are not engineering terms that I am familiar with.

Audio crackling with new i7 build.

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