The Great BMW Debate

[Machinesworking]

fines, forced labor and executions.

That's about as inhumane as it gets! Not terrible enough for you?

I could think of a few worse things

Nobody can throw your own ideas down the shithole as succinctly as you can galt. Please, keep talking.

Nah, it's ok. If you've got the money you could pay off your fine or maybe have good enough insurance to cover it. Only poor people would see forced labour camps or face execution.

Correction, only poor people who commit crimes and are unable to makes amends. Or do you think criminals shouldn't be held accountable for their crimes?

Yep, rich people can just pay a fine, and get off scott free, at least it's honest in it's complete lack of respect for the individual.

[scott nathaniel]

I could think of a few worse things

Nobody can throw your own ideas down the shithole as succinctly as you can galt. Please, keep talking.

Nah, it's ok. If you've got the money you could pay off your fine or maybe have good enough insurance to cover it. Only poor people would see forced labour camps or face execution.

Correction, only poor people who commit crimes and are unable to makes amends. Or do you think criminals shouldn't be held accountable for their crimes?

Yep, rich people can just pay a fine, and get off scott free, at least it's honest in it's complete lack of respect for the individual.

I'm having a difficult time discerning the exact point of divergence between Galt's dreamworld and the world as it currently exists. Currently, money guarantees that all laws become a bit more stretchy. Without those finacial means, the laws remain in their rigid and unforgiving state. Only an asshole would be ok with this.

[stringtapper]

The laws and fining systems in the US are such that if you fuck up and can't pay then you're looking at doing time and even then you may have to owe money. This creates a situation where people can fuck up and then go into a total downward spiral because of the monetary aspect of their situation where they might never get out of the piling up of fines and punishments. Having offenses on your record makes it hard to get employment and thus harder to pay fines. The spiral continues.

Some might say "Well don't fuck up." If only life were that simple.

[Machinesworking]

Both you guys are correct about this, but Galts suggestion allows for even more penalties to be possibly paid off by fines.
Essentially Galt suggests that we eliminate all government controlled safety nets for the poor, and allow the rich even more wiggle room with laws. Let's face it less government and less laws allows for more pay offs. Cheaper too, because the government is broke. This is the fundamental flaw in the Libertarian utopia.

[beats me]

The laws and fining systems in the US are such that if you fuck up and can't pay then you're looking at doing time and even then you may have to owe money. This creates a situation where people can fuck up and then go into a total downward spiral because of the monetary aspect of their situation where they might never get out of the piling up of fines and punishments. Having offenses on your record makes it hard to get employment and thus harder to pay fines. The spiral continues.

Some might say "Well don't fuck up." If only life were that simple.

I went to court once because I had to admit that while under the influence of alcohol I j-walked in front of a cop and therefore should be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law. My bad. What blew me away was the parade of people before me who were there for not paying their fines anywhere from a couple hundred bucks to a couple thousand. Some hadn’t paid a dime for over a year. The judge was pretty mellow and even asked them to just make some kind of payment while they were there. Maybe the person they arrived with could loan them a couple bucks.

But no, one by one, each of them were corralled into the jury box to be hauled off to jail to pay off their fines at a rate of $100 a day to sit in a cage. Some even preferred this payment method and acted like it was a regular occurrence for them. Most didn’t seem like they were in dire straits. They simply didn’t give a shit or were chronically financially irresponsible. These weren’t people getting relentlessly screwed by an unforgiving system. These were professional losers.

It really opened my eyes to people I didn’t believe actually exist.

[stringtapper]

Oh yeah, that happens. In Dallas they'll grant you 3 days of jail for the time of one because the system is so full. So with that kind of system sitting in a cell is more feasible than paying a fine, especially if you're poor or unemployed to begin with.

[beats me]

Oh yeah, that happens. In Dallas they'll grant you 3 days of jail for the time of one because the system is so full. So with that kind of system sitting in a cell is more feasible than paying a fine, especially if you're poor or unemployed to begin with.

But you can tell by the way some people dress, act, and speak in court that they aren’t exactly a monument to good life decisions. And no amount of poverty, except possibly homelessness, excuses wearing sweatpants to court.

[regretfullySaid]

And you don't live in L.A.???

[scott nathaniel]

The laws and fining systems in the US are such that if you fuck up and can't pay then you're looking at doing time and even then you may have to owe money. This creates a situation where people can fuck up and then go into a total downward spiral because of the monetary aspect of their situation where they might never get out of the piling up of fines and punishments. Having offenses on your record makes it hard to get employment and thus harder to pay fines. The spiral continues.

Some might say "Well don't fuck up." If only life were that simple.

I went to court once because I had to admit that while under the influence of alcohol I j-walked in front of a cop and therefore should be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law. My bad. What blew me away was the parade of people before me who were there for not paying their fines anywhere from a couple hundred bucks to a couple thousand. Some hadn’t paid a dime for over a year. The judge was pretty mellow and even asked them to just make some kind of payment while they were there. Maybe the person they arrived with could loan them a couple bucks.

But no, one by one, each of them were corralled into the jury box to be hauled off to jail to pay off their fines at a rate of $100 a day to sit in a cage. Some even preferred this payment method and acted like it was a regular occurrence for them. Most didn’t seem like they were in dire straits. They simply didn’t give a shit or were chronically financially irresponsible. These weren’t people getting relentlessly screwed by an unforgiving system. These were professional losers.

It really opened my eyes to people I didn’t believe actually exist.

This is classic. One criminal opines the other criminal's lack of morality.

[TomViolenz]

Oh yeah, that happens. In Dallas they'll grant you 3 days of jail for the time of one because the system is so full. So with that kind of system sitting in a cell is more feasible than paying a fine, especially if you're poor or unemployed to begin with.

But you can tell by the way some people dress, act, and speak in court that they aren’t exactly a monument to good life decisions. And no amount of poverty, except possibly homelessness, excuses wearing sweatpants to court.

It's always fun to make fun of the bad life decisions of others, because all our decisions were always so wise

[beats me]

The laws and fining systems in the US are such that if you fuck up and can't pay then you're looking at doing time and even then you may have to owe money. This creates a situation where people can fuck up and then go into a total downward spiral because of the monetary aspect of their situation where they might never get out of the piling up of fines and punishments. Having offenses on your record makes it hard to get employment and thus harder to pay fines. The spiral continues.

Some might say "Well don't fuck up." If only life were that simple.

I went to court once because I had to admit that while under the influence of alcohol I j-walked in front of a cop and therefore should be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law. My bad. What blew me away was the parade of people before me who were there for not paying their fines anywhere from a couple hundred bucks to a couple thousand. Some hadn’t paid a dime for over a year. The judge was pretty mellow and even asked them to just make some kind of payment while they were there. Maybe the person they arrived with could loan them a couple bucks.

But no, one by one, each of them were corralled into the jury box to be hauled off to jail to pay off their fines at a rate of $100 a day to sit in a cage. Some even preferred this payment method and acted like it was a regular occurrence for them. Most didn’t seem like they were in dire straits. They simply didn’t give a shit or were chronically financially irresponsible. These weren’t people getting relentlessly screwed by an unforgiving system. These were professional losers.

It really opened my eyes to people I didn’t believe actually exist.

This is classic. One criminal opines the other criminal's lack of morality.

Yes, there’s a special circle of hell reserved for those who cross the street in front of a bar without using the crosswalk.

[TomViolenz]

The laws and fining systems in the US are such that if you fuck up and can't pay then you're looking at doing time and even then you may have to owe money. This creates a situation where people can fuck up and then go into a total downward spiral because of the monetary aspect of their situation where they might never get out of the piling up of fines and punishments. Having offenses on your record makes it hard to get employment and thus harder to pay fines. The spiral continues.

Some might say "Well don't fuck up." If only life were that simple.

I went to court once because I had to admit that while under the influence of alcohol I j-walked in front of a cop and therefore should be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law. My bad. What blew me away was the parade of people before me who were there for not paying their fines anywhere from a couple hundred bucks to a couple thousand. Some hadn’t paid a dime for over a year. The judge was pretty mellow and even asked them to just make some kind of payment while they were there. Maybe the person they arrived with could loan them a couple bucks.

But no, one by one, each of them were corralled into the jury box to be hauled off to jail to pay off their fines at a rate of $100 a day to sit in a cage. Some even preferred this payment method and acted like it was a regular occurrence for them. Most didn’t seem like they were in dire straits. They simply didn’t give a shit or were chronically financially irresponsible. These weren’t people getting relentlessly screwed by an unforgiving system. These were professional losers.

It really opened my eyes to people I didn’t believe actually exist.

This is classic. One criminal opines the other criminal's lack of morality.

Absolutely! I mean he was drunk in public, he should obviously never again opinion on morality, EVER!

[regretfullySaid]

...to be hauled off to jail to pay off their fines at a rate of $100 a day to sit in a cage. Some even preferred this payment method and acted like it was a regular occurrence for them.

Ah, this explains the sweatpants.

When I did some time this guy coughed up a joint. Not quite literally, as he had to gag himself a little. Apparently he was quite skilled at jamming it down his throat, keeping it dry for so long(?), and then regurgitating it in pretty clean tact. .

[scott nathaniel]

This is classic. One criminal opines the other criminal's lack of morality.

Yes, there’s a special circle of hell reserved for those who cross the street in front of a bar without using the crosswalk.

I don't know what kind of person believes it's ok to cross a street at a point of convenience!

[regretfullySaid]

I don't know what kind of person believes it's ok to cross a street at a point of convenience!

When there's no car coming?