Increasing overall track volume after volume automation?

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Daniel_S
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Increasing overall track volume after volume automation?

Post by Daniel_S » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:44 pm

If I go to increase a tracks volume after I have created a whole load of volume automation, it greys out my automation line.

Is there a way of increasing the tracks volume AND retaining the automation?

This applies to pretty much anything really - if I go to change a parameter after automation has been set, it greys out the automation.

Not only that but I can never seem to be able to re-enable my automation without a reload.

I know that the answer to this will be very obvious, so I apologies in advance :)

Tarekith
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Re: Increasing overall track volume after volume automation?

Post by Tarekith » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:46 pm

You can use an Utility plug in on that track to raise the volume. Easier to automation that versus the volume fader too, for just this reason.

TomViolenz
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Re: Increasing overall track volume after volume automation?

Post by TomViolenz » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:07 pm

Daniel_S wrote: This applies to pretty much anything really - if I go to change a parameter after automation has been set, it greys out the automation.

Not only that but I can never seem to be able to re-enable my automation without a reload.
That's on purpose, it let's you try out different values, without deleting the automation you already did.

In order to go back to your automation (and not the values you have set at the moment) there is one button on top (an arrow that is now lit up red) that you just click.
Something similar exists for when you have made live changes in your Session View that differ from the set how you recorded it into the Arrangement view. This button is called "Back to arrangement" and is in this case also lit up red and is found either next to the "Stop all clips" button in the Master channel (in Session view) or on the very top, next to the loop bracelet. (in Arrangement view).

störgeräusche
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Re: Increasing overall track volume after volume automation?

Post by störgeräusche » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:29 pm

Tarekith wrote:You can use an Utility plug in on that track to raise the volume. Easier to automation that versus the volume fader too, for just this reason.
+1... i never automate faders... just utility!
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rtcardinal
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Re: Increasing overall track volume after volume automation?

Post by rtcardinal » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:06 pm

As convenient as it is to simply automate the channel faders in live, I avoid doing it for this same reason. I like keep my faders for overall 'trim' on the volume so that I can look at multiple channels at a glance and make adjustments in the mixer. It easy to do this afterward with a utility, but that makes it tough to get an overall picture of the mix.

I handle volume automation with Utility plugins (handy because you can put them anywhere in your chain). Or if I'm doing really sensitive automation with pure low end stuff (sub bass sound design) I'll actually use a Fabfilter Pro-Q (automate the output volume), because their controls are interpolated/smoothed. I've actually gotten noticeable clicks and interpolation noise when doing detailed automation of the chain volume in a rack or with utility on sub bass stuff, particularly with quicker 'envelope' style automation, and none with the Fabfilter stuff in direct comparison. The downside is that the fabfilter stuff doesn't respond as quick to automation changes due to the smoothing and can round off transients if the automation change happens to quickly over top of one. *phew*

tigali
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Re: Increasing overall track volume after volume automation?

Post by tigali » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:19 pm

Fabfilter Pro-Q rocks.

studiojohnny
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Re: Increasing overall track volume after volume automation?

Post by studiojohnny » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:53 am

störgeräusche wrote:
Tarekith wrote:You can use an Utility plug in on that track to raise the volume. Easier to automation that versus the volume fader too, for just this reason.
+1... i never automate faders... just utility!
+1 That is seriously a great tip. Thank you.

drez
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Re: Increasing overall track volume after volume automation?

Post by drez » Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:37 pm

studiojohnny wrote:
störgeräusche wrote:
Tarekith wrote:You can use an Utility plug in on that track to raise the volume. Easier to automation that versus the volume fader too, for just this reason.
+1... i never automate faders... just utility!
+1 That is seriously a great tip. Thank you.
Yep, this is THE way to do it, IMO.
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Re: Increasing overall track volume after volume automation?

Post by jestermgee » Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:37 pm

drez wrote:
Yep, this is THE way to do it, IMO.
Unless you use a mixing console.

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Re: Increasing overall track volume after volume automation?

Post by drez » Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:41 pm

jestermgee wrote:
drez wrote:
Yep, this is THE way to do it, IMO.
Unless you use a mixing console.
Are you saying you would NOT use the utility for automation if you had a console? If so, why not?
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Re: Increasing overall track volume after volume automation?

Post by jestermgee » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:08 pm

drez wrote:
jestermgee wrote:
drez wrote:
Yep, this is THE way to do it, IMO.
Unless you use a mixing console.
Are you saying you would NOT use the utility for automation if you had a console? If so, why not?
Yep.

I use the utility to create a track volume "offset" in the same way people use the track volume to do the same thing. Its another area where you can choose option A or B and they both work, just differently for different people.

So why would you use track volume instead of a utility to automate? Well if you have a mixing console you have all your track faders in front of you on the desk. If you need to start fading and cutting and bringing things down and up in the mix on several tracks you "could" do it 1 track at a time and use a utility or map all your utilities to knobs somewhere

OR

just grab faders and go.

Take mixing sound and music for film (which I do a lot of). If you need to adjust volume for sometimes hundreds of tracks it is much easier to use faders because you can grab all 8 of them if you need. Something that cannot be done with any other method.

It all depends on how you are setup.

jestermgee
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Re: Increasing overall track volume after volume automation?

Post by jestermgee » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:13 pm

I see you have touchable.

Test this with that. Works the same way.

See which is easier to automate over multiple tracks. A utility on each track or the track volume itself.

I will say though that the utility method does allow you to place the automation point anywhere in a chain (think tailing off reverb on a fade) which can be a benefit... This is where I use group tracks though and insert "after fader effects" in the group part (which can still be done after the automation has been applied).

Damn, it's all so fun :)

rtcardinal
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Re: Increasing overall track volume after volume automation?

Post by rtcardinal » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:19 pm

Or just shift / multi-select all of the faders you want to move, and move them all at the same time by the same amount. Something you CAN'T do if you have automation on the channel faders.

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Re: Increasing overall track volume after volume automation?

Post by jestermgee » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:24 pm

rtcardinal wrote:Or just shift / multi-select all of the faders you want to move, and move them all at the same time by the same amount. Something you CAN'T do if you have automation on the channel faders.
Useful if you need to adjust everything by the same amount but not if you are adjusting many things by many different amounts. Additionally that requires shift+mouse+click whereas mixer requires finger+slide

Daniel_S
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Re: Increasing overall track volume after volume automation?

Post by Daniel_S » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:20 pm

Thanks for the Utility tip guys... that's going to be very useful.

I take it that Utility is an included Ableton plugin - sorry not able to look at the mo.

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