Watched some Push demo videos on youtube, and eh.

[eyeknow]

I dunno, 99% of what I listen to is generic crap, I don't think that they are all using live.

Those videos are not exactly how I work. I have a tendency to be pretty basic though. I do basically two types of music (and it's strictly for my entertainment purposes):

-a rock based kinda stuff that has a good portion of guitar work
-experimental that has all the cool synthy stuff POSSIBLY with a guitar/bass element

I guess I don't really care if someone wants push or not. I'm not going to try and convince you you NEED it, but for crying out loud, it's just a tool. For me, it gets me going.

[Michael Hatsis]

I guess I don't really care if someone wants push or not. I'm not going to try and convince you you NEED it, but for crying out loud, it's just a tool. For me, it gets me going.

Yes, it's a tool that ableton is spending alot of time and resources on and are changing the fundamental way the program works for Push. That is my main beef w it. I presonally don't like this direction as it doesn't offer me anything i like or need.


Mike

[tedlogan]

I guess I don't really care if someone wants push or not. I'm not going to try and convince you you NEED it, but for crying out loud, it's just a tool. For me, it gets me going.

Yes, it's a tool that ableton is spending alot of time and resources on and are changing the fundamental way the program works for Push. That is my main beef w it. I presonally don't like this direction as it doesn't offer me anything i like or need.


Mike

That's a valid point Mike. I do understand your point about how Ableton spend their time and resources, and perhaps not addressing other issues within the software itself. But some people who've been with Live for a long time (I started with Live 5) find that Push does not hamper the music recording/creating process - it enhances the experience of operating the DAW. I must stress this is not for everyone though.

I think to get the best out of it you need a LOT of configuring and customising beforehand. By this I mean building your racks, configuring the macros to be useful and meaningful in your music creation, organising your user library, building your drumkits, etc. This does not apply to in-the-box Live users of course.

Once you have your VSTs and your racks and effects ready to go, it is a superb controller. It is not perfect, has its quirks, and Ableton really need to catch up with PXT and other modders.

And like eyeknow said, I'm not interested in trying to convert anyone into acquiring a Push. I'm just joining the conversation, as I like this forum and its discussions.

[kb420]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zQSD3rCPp1E

[Buleriachk]

I'm using push to practice for movie tracks when Spaghetti Westerns come around again.......

[eyeknow]

There was a guy years ago that did SWhip hop over at the reaper forums. I liked it.

[beats me]

This is the video that sold me on Push

He's doing it from scratch, so it takes a while (4 min or so) to get going.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cutgtf-B0pY

As a bonus - I don't think it's techno. Some earlier popular musical form, I think.

I respect what Tom does generally but I couldn’t help but feel that could have been made just as easily without using Push. If nothing else it didn’t inspire me to run out and buy Push.

[beats me]

Nice one Finn, I forgot about that one.

I also followed that Cat and Beats set of videos for a while before I got my Push. He's funny and pretty talented too.

http://youtu.be/H6YXyiAB7Fc <- This after FlyLo piece was cool I thought.

Dug the song more than most Push videos, but when it got to the “performing” the song part of the video he really wasn’t doing that much.

Like I said earlier, some of the early APC40 videos seemed to have a lot more going on as far as really performing and building a song. It’s been said that Push is more of a production tool, but is it really that difficult to perform with it? I’ve seen more elaborate performances done with a Launchpad and that doesn’t even have as many hardware control options.

[re:dream]

This is the video that sold me on Push

He's doing it from scratch, so it takes a while (4 min or so) to get going.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cutgtf-B0pY

As a bonus - I don't think it's techno. Some earlier popular musical form, I think.

I respect what Tom does generally but I couldn’t help but feel that could have been made just as easily without using Push. If nothing else it didn’t inspire me to run out and buy Push.

Of course it could've. In fact, you don't need live at all - you could have made that particular piece of music using a traditional combo of kit drums, double bass and piano. Or you could have made the same music penciling in the beats into a Live clip with a mouse. Or you could record the piano solo on a keyboard. If you have the skills.

For me the video illustrated to me that you can play Push musically (which was my big concern).

Subsequently, on owning it, I find that I greatly enjoy the workflow, and that getting beats and basic chords down is much more intuitive and flowing than before.

But I don't use Maschine, or Launchpad, or any of the other big controllers, so my base of comparison is limited. I fully accept that your mileage may vary.

Frankly, I think all these discussions about which controller is best or whether x, y or z is a bad or a good thing are useless. I am interested in making music with the instruments to hand. Or, in my case, failing to make music - but I blame that on my limited talent, vision, and poorly allocated time, not on me hardware

[yur2die4]

I've mentioned the bottleneck aspect before. Push suffers from only being able to use the knobs for one thing at a time, and half those things aren't really that great for controlling with knobs (volume faders??).

I think it shines best as a melodic instrument or drum sequencer or session view control. It happens to do all three and people try to use a little of it all.

Many cases we'll see with Push is people Wanting to start from scratch. Push offers so much for getting ideas going and down, people want to show that process in action. But it is not appealing for an audience. You either need to have a preset layout, or really have a performance piece designed For Push.

In the case of the APC and Launchpad, there is already the expectation that you Can't do certain things. Or if you intend to, you bring more tools into the picture.

I think there is plenty of potential, and people are still feeling their way. It suits what I do pretty damn well, except what I 'do' I almost do better with a mouse, qwerty, LP, and some keys haha

I also am a huge huge believer in the idea of modern 'performance pieces' intended to be replicated via certain hardware/instrument combinations. It is sort of what gives an instrument a personality. 303's are known for certain qualities, as is the violin or piano. What will people be able to do with Push and a heavily practiced performance piece??

[Buleriachk]

This will depend a lot on technical ability, particularly the TPM "Twist per Minute" of the performance piece....

I also am a huge huge believer in the idea of modern 'performance pieces' intended to be replicated via certain hardware/instrument combinations. It is sort of what gives an instrument a personality. 303's are known for certain qualities, as is the violin or piano. What will people be able to do with Push and a heavily practiced performance piece??

[beats me]

This is the video that sold me on Push

He's doing it from scratch, so it takes a while (4 min or so) to get going.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cutgtf-B0pY

As a bonus - I don't think it's techno. Some earlier popular musical form, I think.

I respect what Tom does generally but I couldn’t help but feel that could have been made just as easily without using Push. If nothing else it didn’t inspire me to run out and buy Push.

Of course it could've. In fact, you don't need live at all - you could have made that particular piece of music using a traditional combo of kit drums, double bass and piano. Or you could have made the same music penciling in the beats into a Live clip with a mouse. Or you could record the piano solo on a keyboard. If you have the skills.

For me the video illustrated to me that you can play Push musically (which was my big concern).

Subsequently, on owning it, I find that I greatly enjoy the workflow, and that getting beats and basic chords down is much more intuitive and flowing than before.

But I don't use Maschine, or Launchpad, or any of the other big controllers, so my base of comparison is limited. I fully accept that your mileage may vary.

Frankly, I think all these discussions about which controller is best or whether x, y or z is a bad or a good thing are useless. I am interested in making music with the instruments to hand. Or, in my case, failing to make music - but I blame that on my limited talent, vision, and poorly allocated time, not on me hardware

Actually I was thinking he could have just as easily played/tapped everything in with a keyboard. It’s not like the scale plug-in is exclusive to Push. It’s a unique controller. I’ll give it that. For me I just don’t see any big advantage to it, especially given its price tag. I think it appeals to those who like unique controllers and/or want to not have to look at the computer as much as possible.

But I’m not sold on thinking just because you aren’t looking at the computer that your workflow also is faster. There’s things I think you can do faster with a mouse than menu diving on a controller.

[yur2die4]

I think it depends most on well thought out techniques.

There are sounds or melodic sequences on instruments which are damn near impossible to replicate without having to know maybe a specific technique.

In the case of Push, what are ways to fluidly and with full intend switch between sounds and patterns for playability? Or

How can your in-the-box instrument be specifically tailored to produce a desirable and thoughtful playable sound. Perhaps in ways that Only Push could do.

An example might be setting Scale to a pentatonic setting with a soft pinky instrument. And then slowly adjusting your pad sensitivity until it auto generates, for an intro. And perhaps recording a loop of that before building up the atmospherics in another manner to, to create a sense of metronome (because no one wants to hear a metronome on a live performance).

On the topic of metronomes, I do recall I've mentioned somewhere a few different techniques for figuring timing without using the click. I'm too lazy to go looking for that haha (one method involved sync delay of course)

[yur2die4]

Actually I was thinking he could have just as easily played/tapped everything in with a keyboard. It’s not like the scale plug-in is exclusive to Push. It’s a unique controller. I’ll give it that. For me I just don’t see any big advantage to it, especially given its price tag. I think it appeals to those who like unique controllers and/or want to not have to look at the computer as much as possible.

But I’m not sold on thinking just because you aren’t looking at the computer that your workflow also is faster. There’s things I think you can do faster with a mouse than menu diving on a controller.

I think part of the point Is that you can do keyboards things without using the same old instrument. There are those who enjoy contorting how they interpret musical concepts by using different conceptual layouts. The challenge is stimulating, that is also what makes the keyboard inviting, trying to find ways to play it beyond how you would normally play it. Plus, it has a different form factor (sitting on a table next to a drink). Instruments are a way to get lost in yourself, and this is a perfect example of that particular aspect. Having the choice to layer bass or percussion, or jam on some riffs, or whatever, and face the challenges of the interface head on.

I'm not saying it is a video that should tell you Hey! Buy Push!!! WOAH!! But, it does demonstrate how casually you can fuck with it and.. dare I say get lost in the flow.

I mean, even when it comes to pads devices, generally pads don't do much more than keys can already do, including percussion, sample handling, scene/pattern selection. Pads just happen to be another way to do it.

[Buleriachk]

For me, a huge advantage in Push is quick and easy access to chord forms and scales (especially when improvising against a chord chart) - this is awkward with Push by itself, to be sure, but with a Launchpad Mini I can alternate between the various scales that define chords within a key with a single button press using my left hand by using ClyphX clips in a dedicated track while playing in Note Mode on my right. (For example to switch between C Major and A Harmonic Minor in the same key).

(This means that all the chord forms remain consistent on the matrix if the root key is specified properly)....

Furthermore, if I have a second Launchpad, I can even change clips during the performance....

(IMO, Push can't do everything by itself (quickly and easily), but it is very powerful when used with other controllers)

For further info, check the thread in my signature....