Soft synth with dedicated hardware controller?

[mickmike]

I originally come from a harware background ( Atari 1040 etc etc ). I then went to ITB with ableton and VSTs. For the last year or so, getting bored of mouse tweaking. I might buy a good soft synth, but don't use it cos computer screen and mouse don't inspire. I have tried midi controllers, but with couple of VSTs, get confused over which parameters assigned, so workflow suffers. I firmly believe hardware sounds better, and like tweaking, just the routing, cables, midi, sequencing issues. Thus, I'm looking at a quality sounding soft synth with dedicated controller. I've looked at roland system 1, but read problems, esp with ableton 8 32 bit. Any suggestions/advice? Thanks

[crystalmsc]

Korg MS-20 Legacy has a dedicated controller. The Novation X-Station can be used as a dedicated controller for the V-Station and others with a familiar synth layout. Komplete S series is a dedicated controller for Komplete 10. For those using Ableton Instruments, Push is a great controller.

[Matt_Quinn]

Sounds like a Virus would be right up your alley. Top notch sound quality and all the convenience of a VST plus a hardware interface, and you can pretty much seamlessly switch back and forth between the two.

http://www.virus.info/virusti/overview

[Tarekith]

Arturia Keylab.

[login]

I totally understand your problem, generic midi controller suck for controlling a soft synth because of the lack of controls. (why everyone stick to 8?).

There are three options:

System 1, which vst is only compatible with vst3 and won't work with Live.

Novation ultranova, it has a vst editor, needs the hardware to work, not as good interface as the roland.

Virus Ti, it has a vst editor, needs the hardware to work, I also find the hardware interface not as knoby as required,


IMHO for a knoby experience the System 1 would be the best even if used with a third party plug in ( i would use it with u-he diva). Its the hardware synth with more controls (more than 50). The con is that the keyboard doesn't has aftertouch and is not veocity sensitive.

Ultranova is the second best option, the interface is not as bad because it has dedicated buttons for each synth section, so any parameter is only one button push away.

The virus ti interface IMHo is not as good, first it doesn't have enough knobs for all the funcitons the synth has and you end using the mouse a lot in the vst editor.

But right now I would wait for NAMM maybe roland releases the 49 version of the system 1.

[JuanSOLO]

I might buy a good soft synth, but don't use it cos computer screen and mouse don't inspire. I have tried midi controllers, but with couple of VSTs, get confused over which parameters assigned, so workflow suffers.

This may be a bit off topic, maybe not, nevertheless I feel like chiming in.
Those 2 things you mentioned ^ just kept haunting me over and over.
Even if you took something like a Novation ReMote, labeled all the knobs and buttons, the option to 'change' that still exists.
Same with midi routing and cables ITB. Endless options eating away at music making hours.

Then there's this.

I firmly believe hardware sounds better

It took me a while to read the writing on the wall.
Ableton Live can spoil you in a way, and deceive you about it's spoils.

Maybe getting a good sequencer is the way to go?
There's a few options in a wide range of price points.
Maybe a Motu Midi Express box, great for routing midi from everything to everything, even the computer.
There's tons of hardware everything these days, like never before.
All kinds of prices.
All kinds of fun.

I use Ableton just to multitrack these days, and maybe spice up some of those takes.

[mickmike]

Thanks for the replies. Good info. Slightly off topic, but I'm ( probably) putting together a new stripped down hardware set up. This will mainly be an electribe emx-1 and a novation nova sequenced in ableton 8. Maybe using an old soundcraft desk and a kp2. After being ITB for years, this could be a challenge to set up. Hope it will run smoothly. Lots of swearing probably

[JuanSOLO]

Never owned one, but the Yamaha RMX1 is supposed to be great, as a sequencer.
Sounds are not so hot.

MPC1000 seems to be one of the staples.
You can sequence external gear, sample, arrange, jam, whatever.
With the JJOS upgrade, even better.

Electribes are cool.
New ones coming out.

There's also the Korg Volca series.

I ended up getting an Octatrack, and recently traded in my Tempest for the Analog RYTM.
It's kinda like having 8 tracks in Ableton, and a drumRack in 2 little hardware boxes.
The OT is expensive, but it's probably the most versatile piece of gear I have ever used.

If I couldnt afford and OT, I'd be going for the MPC1000.

As for Soundcraft, I would suggest the Allen Heath Zed series as an alternative.
Much better build quality, and it sounds fantastic.
Plus it in the same price range.

[mickmike]

The elektron stuff looks good. I can't justify the expense when experimenting with a new direction. I just want a few bits of kit and concentrate on sound texture ( why I'm getting away from soft synths ) in a minimal groove. You say I can connect and sequence all kit into mpc1000 ( then transfer to mac for burning/sending ). The soundcraft desk is from the attic, nova been kicking around for a while, recently ebayed the electribe - like it a lot, loads fun, but no real pad sounds ( new one could be very cool ). Plus a xoxbox I might include. I'm already getting confused. Timing issues, midi, syncing, audio routing, aargh! Wanna keep simple as poss. You get the gist of where I'm going. Any more kit or method suggestions much appreciated.

[JuanSOLO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EbTqZQ4efs

Fairly good example of what you might be after, at least as far as set up goes.
MPC1000 has 2 midi ins and 2 midi outs.
Considering most gear has midi thru, the MPC makes for a good central piece when building up to a bigger rig.

If you get to the point where you have run out of midi thru's and in/out ports, and older Motu Midi Express XT goes for cheap. Got mine for $40. No usb, nevertheless I go midi to my computer with a simple midi to usb cable.
The Motu Express has a facotry preset called, "Live Keyboards."
Basically all inputs go to all outputs, however IN CH1 does not go OUT CH1, same for 2-8.
So you plug in all of your stuff to the ins and outs, then just assign individual channels on your hardware.
It's fairly simple.

[mickmike]

That's a great set up he's got going on. Makes me laugh that I changed to ITB to get away from all the cables and shit, and now I'm gonna be digging them all out again. Guess that why I kept them ( nagging feeling in back of mind...) you just can't get the snap or thickness from VSTs ( though millions would disagree).

[JuanSOLO]

I too went ITB from hardware, around Live version 3.
Then the APC40 and M4L came out.
I wasted 5 years trying to decide how to set up Live and controllers.
First thing I got going back to hardware was a Slim Phatty.
It was almost comical how good it sounded and how easy it was to dial in sounds I liked.
Since then, scrolling the laptop and mousing knobs in search of sounds has become a thing of the past.

[mickmike]

I hear you brother. I got a bit of relearning to do though. Good gear can make just a beat and a line sound great ( is this the drugs forum )

[mickmike]

One more thing whilst on my mind. It's probably obvious, but I've been burning CDs and sending tracks out via ableton. If I'm using mpc1000 how would I do this? Connect via audio interface to mac and copy track into mac before sending/burning...

[JuanSOLO]

I still use Ableton Live to record.
Sometimes I sync Live and multitrack stuff and edit in Live, or connect multiple outs to a soundcard and record them into Live.
Lately I have just been working everything up on the hardware and running stereo out from my mixer to Live and just capturing the whole thing as is.

There's a wide variety of ways.