Richie Hawtin you idiot.

[snakedogman]

It was mentioned somewhere here before and this confirms it. You really don't know what your talking about do you? Horrible music made better with drugs? Before that it was all about who could louder, harder, faster and cheesier?

There is obviously no accounting for taste, but I maintain that stance at least for a better part of the 90s, and I think that notalgia for this being the time when you (and I) were young is severly clouding your judgement.

I have a hard time thinking of anything from before '98 that held up to the tests of time.

I don't even mean that in a bad way. The sub culture around it was definitely new and absolutely liberating.

But look at the available tools at the time and the people doing it.

A TB 303, TR 808 etc. had a very limited sound pallete and even if you didn't use the inbuild sequencers but connected them to an Atari ST, the sequencing and sound shaping was extremly limited.

People back then took a Punk attitude and just started to produce. At that time you could basically get everything released anyways.

Which is good and was necessary to get more people involved in it and thinking they can do it too.

But be serious here: Popular genres back then were: Happy HardCore (lol), Trance and Gabba for fucks sake.

I for one can't listen to anything from back then without cringing.

Wow, um... you are missing the mark by about 10 years I think. There was bit more going on than 303's and 808's by 1998! Who cares that the "popular" genres were happy hardcore or gabba? Were these popular genres in any way representative of the electronic music/techno "genre" as a whole? Of course not.
Even if you just take the big names: Orbital, Underworld, the Chemical Brothers, The Prodigy, Leftfield, Daft Punk, all these had already released highly acclaimed (even in the mainstream) albums by then (starting around 1993-1994), sometimes several.

[TomViolenz]

It was mentioned somewhere here before and this confirms it. You really don't know what your talking about do you? Horrible music made better with drugs? Before that it was all about who could louder, harder, faster and cheesier?

There is obviously no accounting for taste, but I maintain that stance at least for a better part of the 90s, and I think that notalgia for this being the time when you (and I) were young is severly clouding your judgement.

I have a hard time thinking of anything from before '98 that held up to the tests of time.

I don't even mean that in a bad way. The sub culture around it was definitely new and absolutely liberating.

But look at the available tools at the time and the people doing it.

A TB 303, TR 808 etc. had a very limited sound pallete and even if you didn't use the inbuild sequencers but connected them to an Atari ST, the sequencing and sound shaping was extremly limited.

People back then took a Punk attitude and just started to produce. At that time you could basically get everything released anyways.

Which is good and was necessary to get more people involved in it and thinking they can do it too.

But be serious here: Popular genres back then were: Happy HardCore (lol), Trance and Gabba for fucks sake.

I for one can't listen to anything from back then without cringing.

Wow, um... you are missing the mark by about 10 years I think. There was bit more going on than 303's and 808's by 1998! Who cares that the "popular" genres were happy hardcore or gabba? Were these popular genres in any way representative of the electronic music/techno "genre" as a whole? Of course not.
Even if you just take the big names: Orbital, Underworld, the Chemical Brothers, The Prodigy, Leftfield, Daft Punk, all these had already released highly acclaimed (even in the mainstream) albums by then (starting around 1993-1994), sometimes several.

Why stop there?! If you want to talk about band projects that used sampling and synths you can also list Pink Floyd in the 60s, or purely electronic start with Kraftwerk in the 70s. Heck if a four to the floor kick rythm is your thing you can go at least back to '82 with Depeche Mode.

You know what all these bands have in common with your list?!
None of them made Techno

And if you heard your listed acts in the discotheques you went to in the end 90s, I am pained to inform you that you were not in a Techno club. Sorry about that

That's why Gabba and Happy Hardcore matter in this discussion about 90s Techno and the bands you listed don't

[regretfullySaid]

Firm, like stale bread.

[H20nly]

Pfft! all this over a monitor! a real techno god would have knocked a stack of speakers on that chick and crushed her.

[re:dream]

This girl I know recently gave me a huge stash of music, mostly white label techno stuff from the early 1990s. She had been part of some of the crews that set up the underground parties back then, in disused warehouses and hospitals and stuff.

The stuff is awesome. Very crude, sometimes, but bursting with invention and fresh ideas. Techno before it got predictable. Very little in the way of slick production. But absolutely riveting.

[regretfullySaid]

Please rip em and share
please

[TomViolenz]

The stuff is awesome. Very crude, sometimes, but bursting with invention and fresh ideas. Techno before it got predictable. Very little in the way of slick production. But absolutely riveting.

See, this I can believe. One person find this stuff fresh (which it was - I liked it enough at the time), the other finds it still very amateur and often too focused on achieving the cheap thrills. (Like I did too)

A bit like Punk, nothing wrong with that

And yeah, you should rip them!

[RonaldDumsfeld]

Techno in the 90s was pretty horrible music .....<snip>......The first acts that were of a higher musical quality only turned that way when the tools got better in the 200

lulwut? That's like saying Paul McCartney did his best work in Wings.

Proves you weren't there then mate. Early to mid nineties was the golden age of Techno.

Back in the 9Ts Ritchie wouldn't have had time to go about idly assaulting his fans. He had to do his own beat matching. Right fuss pot about it he was too.

This guy was a bit more casual about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmV2YOnvSb4

[TomViolenz]

Techno in the 90s was pretty horrible music .....<snip>......The first acts that were of a higher musical quality only turned that way when the tools got better in the 200

lulwut? That's like saying Paul McCartney did his best work in Wings.

Proves you weren't there then mate. Early to mid nineties was the golden age of Techno.

Back in the 9Ts Ritchie wouldn't have had time to go about idly assaulting his fans. He had to do his own beat matching.

And that's a good thing, how?!

Manual beat matching is a creative time waste, you could spend on much more interesting things as a DJ (and no I don't mean waving your arms )

I'm glad it's gone

[regretfullySaid]

Like what? A dj doesn't need to be doin much except picking the right songs and eq'ing them. There should be plenty of time to beat match.

Or do you have to make sure you have time to trigger quantized fx and siren samples? Because that is soooo much more creative and time consuming... there's a reason we have 2 arms/brains.

[TomViolenz]

Like what? A dj doesn't need to be doin much except picking the right songs and eq'ing them. There should be plenty of time to beat match.

Or do you have to make sure you have time to trigger quantized fx and siren samples? Because that is soooo much more creative and time consuming... there's a reason we have 2 arms/brains.

ha, ha

So that's what you think the choices are a DJ can make?
Either doing boring beat matching or firing siren samples and BeatRepeat?!

A whole world lives between these two options!

But sure, I'm the one who doesn't know what he's talking about

[RonaldDumsfeld]

Manual beat matching is a creative time waste, you could spend on much more interesting things as a DJ

More interesting for whom?

[regretfullySaid]

Nancy, read my first sentence again. The last part is sarcasm. Beatmatching isn't about boring or exciting, it's just a utility, unless you do some interesting off beat transitioning. It doesn't need to be perfect everytime, but it is something every dj should be able to handle at least decently.

You mske it sound like the dj needs to keepthemselves interested with parlor tricks, and I say the dj should only care about taking the audience somewhere, and that includes stepping the fuck back from the table instead of always making noise to try and keep things 'interesting'.

Yes, I know there's an 'entire world' between those 2 options , but you didn't get the point. Stick to blending textures together and let someone else dj them. But by all means keep admitting how jealous you are of Hawtin.

[TomViolenz]

Nancy, read my first sentence again. The last part is sarcasm.

Why do you call me Nancy and why should re-reading your first sentence change what I wrote?! And it's really difficult to detect sarcasm from strangers on the internet. Try a /s tag in the future.

Beatmatching isn't about boring or exciting, it's just a utility, unless you do some interesting off beat transitioning. It doesn't need to be perfect everytime, but it is something every dj should be able to handle at least decently.

Exactly! It's a utility. Something boring that needed to be done, so the audience didn't hear a change from one track to the next. To keep up that eternal night vibe of Techno.
That's taken care of now. Traktor does it for you. What I don't understand is how DJs are not euphoric about this freed time to finally do something more creative than just to make inaudible transitions.
DJs say they see themselves as artists. Well, this is their chance to prove they can do something that a machine can't do better. Be creative and not just a utility.
Instead it's touted as some sort of skill that separates the amateurs from the pros.

Just like Dumsfelds statement saying: back then Hawtin wasn't total shit, because he still manualy beatmatched, which is what I originally responded to. Being shit or not and beat matching are two things that are totaly unrelated to each other IMO.

You mske it sound like the dj needs to keepthemselves interested with parlor tricks, and I say the dj should only care about taking the audience somewhere, and that includes stepping the fuck back from the table instead of always making noise to try and keep things 'interesting'.

Could you please post quotes where I or you said anything of this nature?

My only response to the work of a DJ (instead of producer) was that I'm glad that beat matching is a thing of the past.
Because let's face it, in the perfect case of a good (beatmatched) transition: The audience didn't care.
In the case it didn't work: the audience mildly rolled their eyes, shrugged and then went on with their night.
And in the absolute worst case, one that I experienced way too often, the DJ can't do decent transitions, but he seems to be totaly unaware of this, prolonging this nightmare to several minutes of pain for the audience.

Yes, I know there's an 'entire world' between those 2 options , but you didn't get the point.

Well, maybe you should try to make it better then, because I still don't get it. What exactly are you arguing for?

But by all means keep admitting how jealous you are of Hawtin.

How does that follow?!

Hawtin stands for a lot of things that are happening in the world of electronic music and specifically Techno atm (super star DJs, ghost producing, ridiculous entry fees, DJs who are stars because they are stars and not because of merit, unimaginative banger style Techno with tapped out breaks and drops... for the masses, Ibiza, etc, etc....), and I think that these things are killing everything I liked about it.

No jealousy needed

[re:dream]

Please rip em and share
please

Will do. It is a completely unlabeled and unsorted mishmash. Want to sort through it a bit. Will upload to dropbox and share the link here