Risks of DJing w/ Live

Digital Buzz · Post by **Digital Buzz** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:38 pm

Let me start off by saying I'm HUGE advocate of DJing with live. I absolutely love the creative possibilities. I'm in the process of recording all my vinyl digitally and selling the 12"'s on Ebay as I write this.

That said, I believe there is the very real possibility that Live can make you a worse DJ then you are with traditional turntables. How you ask? Because like any new technology, people get carried away with their ability to do new things and ultimately the music suffers. Guys using live feel like they have to constantly show the audience they're tweaking something or chopping something since they aren't beat matching anymore. Honestly I've been guilty of this myself, but I feel like I've toned it down recently. What I mean is people are getting so carried away chopping, filtering and adding FX on the fly that the song they are playing is a mere shadow of its former self. Yes, this can result in some very cool "live" remixes, but it can also result in a dancefloor that feels like they've heard a bunch of random loops mashed together with little or no flow.

My best case and point would be the one and only Sasha. I'm a huge fan, and have been for the better part of the last 15 years. However I've heard him play twice using Live and I will say his sets are much different then they were in say the Twilo days. Although the second time I heard him, he toned down all the crazy chops and FX, I still felt like was missing some of the original beauty of the songs he played.

Oh well. Don't get me wrong. Live is the absolute future of djing in my opinion. This is just my advice to be aware of how much you rearrange your tracks on the fly when you're trying to get a dancefloor populated. You're playing a song because it probably stands on its own, so SOMETIMES it's best to let it do just that.

My $.02

Long Live Live!

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:02 pm

I've personally written extensively on this for my own edification (you can read the musings here if you are so inclined:

http://www.socal-breaks.com/discussion/ ... .php?t=131

and

http://www.socal-breaks.com/discussion/ ... .php?t=166
)

But suffice to say that the most important thing (as always) is your attention to the dancefloor and your music programming (selection and timing).

This is key. It is, as you say, a hard thing NOT to do stuff in Live while playing just because you can....

.02
rob.

nuperspective · Post by **nuperspective** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:10 pm

My best case and point would be the one and only Sasha. I'm a huge fan, and have been for the better part of the last 15 years. However I've heard him play twice using Live and I will say his sets are much different then they were in say the Twilo days. Although the second time I heard him, he toned down all the crazy chops and FX, I still felt like was missing some of the original beauty of the songs he played.

i'm the same as you man. big fan for 10 years or more. i saw him play at a club in the north of england at the start of the rave scene [manhattan heights - blackburn 1989] and i've been a huge fan ever since.... ....until last year. i think he has completely lost the plot.

his musical style has turned into a load of souless, electro tinged drivel. please note this pains me to say it. the fundacion cd was crap.

dont take this the wrong way i think he spends to much time in the states.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:13 pm

Apart from some surround sound and live percussion, I more or less leave the songs alone and concentrate on flowing one track into the next, video, lighting, the crowd, keeping everything working, and making sure that some drunken dilrod doesn't trash my gear. I don't even stay on the stage the whole time.

Beat meat repeat, supa dis, trigga dat, cheezy filter sweeps, even cheezier EQ cuts and mash-ups, double-flip butt-fuck robo voice resonating redux flangers, etc... they're the ingredients of how the immature and inexperienced geekboffin DJ will masturbate to the crowd with predictable results that will make even vinyl DJs look good.

My opinion only.

Agent47 · Post by **Agent47** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:22 pm

Cool, glad to know I am not the only one doing live percussion using Live.

kennerb · Post by **kennerb** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:27 pm

Agent47 wrote:Cool, glad to know I am not the only one doing live percussion using Live.

I think live elements with Live is the bomb. I love to incorporate drummers and live bass + horns. Very fun stuff.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:30 pm

I know it's cheating, but I not only play live percussion, but trigger percussion loops from the drums that make it look like I'm doing a lot more than I really am. It's lots of fun, too. I'm also triggering video and lighting from the drum pads thru Live. I'm considering getting another Yamaha digital drum pad with wireless MIDI to let the crowd participate.

supster · Post by **supster** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:36 pm

robtronik wrote:I've personally written extensively on this for my own edification (you can read the musings here if you are so inclined:

http://www.socal-breaks.com/discussion/ ... .php?t=131

and

http://www.socal-breaks.com/discussion/ ... .php?t=166

yeah:

"Just because you can, doens't mean you should. Further, programming is, and always will be, the king of the dancefloor.

Technical skills? Important, but not a requirement. Knowing your music? Critical, but absolutely worthless knowledge unless you understand the psyche of the dancefloor and when to play what at the right time.

Programming: Knowing when to play what, when."

really well put, i think that sums up the basic issue with DJing with anything, but especially Live.

as time goes on people will be judged not by how well they beatmatch (thats over) but if you are showing restraint and taste in how you use all of the new options available.

its going to be an ongoing issue, i think some people are going to get really good if not amazing with it over time, and others not so well.

at the same time theres a lot of room to develop an individual style with it. whereas with traditional mixing you were mainly judged by your programming and beatmatching skills. there was nothing else to distinguish you.

thats over now.
.

Agent47 · Post by **Agent47** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:46 pm

Its all about the mix in my opinion. If you throw down a bad azz mix that makes me dance my azz off then I am a happy camper.

I have amazed myself using Live. You can do so much with it, its just cool.

nuperspective · Post by **nuperspective** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:47 pm

agreed.

i had my 1210's for 15 years. until i tried live. i sold them 3 months later. no ones going to tell me i cant beatmatch. if someone wants to give me a had time for using live, i'll shut the laptop down and tell them to 'set em up'. its through creative choice i moved to live not the band wagon. it allows me to mix tracks together as i always wanted. if your programming skills are poor no software can help you. you will always be distinguished by your creativity.

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:54 pm

It comes down to your personal DJ style.... and the music you play.

Some DJs are showboats, who like to make the audience fully aware of what their doing. You know they type.... guys who turn knobs with their whole body just for dramatic effect.

Some DJs prefer to be subtle. The perfect example is John Digweed. You won't hear Digweed going crazy with external FX, or jumping up and down behind the decks.... he is more reserved than that. He let's the music shine, and mixes in a way that is as transparent as possible.

computo · Post by **computo** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:12 pm

DJs....

why not change the paradigm, and reinvent what you are doing?

You can piece apart tunes, into sections, and completely rearrange the song, allowing for a MUCH more "live" performance. You dont have to be CONSTANTLY turning knobs, but like any artist, you gotta make it interesting.

There are endless ways to break a show down, why not make the process a little bit more thought intensive, rather than making it easier and easier, like sasha might do.

My advice, if you can call it that, is use the section start column on the left, and arrange your tunes section by section. The NIN remix files do a quite extensive job of illustrating that concept.

Nothing new, but you can ALWAYS make things harder, or more thought provoking...

Jordan Vesteyo · Post by **Jordan Vesteyo** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:14 pm

i agree 100% with nuperspective, Live allows me to do things djing that I've always wanted to do, sold my decks after 17yrs too. Some people were a little skeptical of me playing on a 12in powerbook as opposed to 1200's/cds, but after hearing it they had nothing but wide eyes and many questions........... Live has completely re-inspired me ... thanks ableton

Agent47 · Post by **Agent47** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:16 pm

I cant wait to get my Gibson digital guitar to add to my live sets!

muthafunka · Post by **muthafunka** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:02 am

Love Live and hate to be the naysayer in the happy crowd, but even with everything set to 'complex' does the crunchy, aliased sound, admittedly worse on some tracks than others, not spoil it for people? For this reason and the fact that I don't really need fx I still use Traktor to dj, it sounds great and I find the on-the-fly looping etc offers many possibilities to mangle people's brains.