Able10 - Swayzak.alp analysis/discussion

[mylkoa]

I created this thread as a subset for a discussion of the Able10 livepacks, see the thread titled "Live Sets from Professionals: Able10" at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=214152 for details.

This thread will focus on the Swazak.alp

[mylkoa]

I will start the discussion with an overview of what I see in this liveset. I find that taking a bird's-eye-view of a topic is a good way to start exploring and reverse engineering it, so as to help me learn new performance and musical ideas...

In this thread, I will examine the "Swayzak Live.als" and "Swayzak Suite.als"; not the "Slip-Pip.als". Perhaps another thread can be created to examine Slip-Pip, if anyone is interested.

First off, I can't see the difference between the Live.als and the Suite.als... both sets have 12 tracks:

1. Kiks
2. Loops
3. Bass
4. Pads
5. Synths
6. Percussion
7. FX
8. Noisetracks
9. Voices
10. Cut up
11. Operator Synth
12. Operator Kick

and both sets have MIDI mappings to the following parameters:

CC16 - Track 2 (loops) mixer volume
CC17 - Track 5 (Synths) mixer volume
CC18 - Track 6 (Percussion) mixer volume
CC19 - Track 4 (Pads) mixer volume
CC21 - Track 8 (noisetracks) mixer volume
CC22 - Track 3 (bass) mixer volume
CC24 - Track 1 (Kiks) mixer volume
CC26 - Send A (EQ-AutoFilt-Delay-Compr) mixer volume
CC27 - Send A, feedback, send to itself.
CC28 - Send A’s send to Send B (a reverb)
CC29 - Send B’s mixer volume
CC30 - Send A’s feedback unit amount (from 0-95%)
CC31 - Master track volume.

and both sets have Key mappings to the following parameters:

Key 1 - 0 (after 9) are “speaker on” or track mutes…
Key “c” - Master>Fade to Grey unit on/off toggle…. (eq3 and a ping pong delay)
Key “D” - Send 2, reverb, solo/cue button.
Key “S” - Send 1, delay, solo/cue
Key “some german letter” - track 11, operator synth, speaker on
Key “x” - Master>gate, on/off
Key “z” - Master>autofilter, on/off

Does anyone have any ideas why they posted two sets? Or am I missing a difference between the two? In any case, since I can't find why Swazak posted two als's, I will ignore it for now.

The interesting thing to me, at first glance, is which parameters they chose to control.... obviously the track volumes and mutes are important... but one thing that's missing are solo buttons... perhaps they had other gear controlling the ability to solo a track? In any case, when I mess around with a liveset, I find that soloing is crucial.

Next thing I noticed is that several tracks have effect configurations that look like they are meant to be "played" with, while other tracks have an effect configuration that does not look like it was meant to be altered during a live performance... example, track 1, "KIKS" has a compressor on it... and doesn't seem to be a unit to be played with during live performance... but the "voices" track has a "vocal stereo repeater", which is basically a beat repeat... and of course, the master has a few effects on it that are totally meant to be manipulated during live performance (e.g. fade to grey). So this is telling me that Swayzak is leaving some tracks alone during performances, while they focus on "performing" with others....more examples:

Track 6 - “Percussion” has a stereo-volving Auto filter that’s begging to be performed with.
Track 10 - “Cut Up” has a cut-o-matic effect that's very playable

The thing that I don't get, is why there aren't any keys or midi mappings assigned to some of these devices? As fas as I can tell, the send volumes and the master (with fade to grey) are the only playable parameters that have controller assignments.... hmmmm???

Anyways.... I'm done posting for now. Cheers!

[TomViolenz]

Why two sets: I would hazzard a guess and say that the Suite version uses instruments only Suite has, while the other one resampled the sounds and plays them back from Simpler?!

Guess means, I don't know, because I never looked into these packs. But that would be the most likely distinction.

Regarding why they assigned some things and not others:
That's how they play it, doesn't mean you have to do the same. (or maybe they don't, see below)

Generally as a live set up this (except the Send A feedback - be very careful with that, I hope they have a Limiter on that track that you didn't mention) seems pretty pedestrian to me. Either they don't really do all that much live, or they didn't give you their real live performance set (more likely) because it contains countless VSTs that you might or might not have.

To continue my speculation: I could imagine that this is not their live set at all, but they were given the opportunity to this able.10 project (good advertisement for them) with the caveat to reproduce what they do with only effects from Live.
And then they did somewhat of a rush job, because everything else would be a huge time sink.
At least that's how I would have handled it.

So take some cues from it, if it helps you, but don't expect to find all that much info in there.

[ikeaboy]

I got a close look at their stage set up back in 2006 and at that point they were also using an analogue mixer with some guitar pedals wired into the sends. I can't remember which ones but I think I remember a Boss delay. So each track was mixed live for the venue.

[mylkoa]

Sorry it took me so long to respond, for some reason I missed the notification that someone responded...

Why two sets: I would hazzard a guess and say that the Suite version uses instruments only Suite has, while the other one resampled the sounds and plays them back from Simpler?!

That's an insightful guess, however there are no simplers in either set.

Guess means, I don't know, because I never looked into these packs. But that would be the most likely distinction.

You get my respect for being candid!

Regarding why they assigned some things and not others:That's how they play it, doesn't mean you have to do the same. (or maybe they don't, see below)

Of course... and this is an exercise to understand HOW they play it. I want to examine their techniques, and steal them, and then totally change them

Generally as a live set up this (except the Send A feedback - be very careful with that, I hope they have a Limiter on that track that you didn't mention) seems pretty pedestrian to me. Either they don't really do all that much live, or they didn't give you their real live performance set (more likely) because it contains countless VSTs that you might or might not have.

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else - however, I love this set. I have just started finding live sets on the Ableton website, and while I'm still a newbie (I've only looked at 15 or so) - this one still remains one of my favorites. So far, I speculate that it's one of the best examples of an ACTUAL set performed in a nightclub...

To continue my speculation: I could imagine that this is not their live set at all, but they were given the opportunity to this able.10 project (good advertisement for them) with the caveat to reproduce what they do with only effects from Live. And then they did somewhat of a rush job, because everything else would be a huge time sink.
At least that's how I would have handled it.

Certainly possible, although it could also not be. In any case - I'm learning from it, and it's fun to talk to other people about it.

So take some cues from it, if it helps you, but don't expect to find all that much info in there.

Absolutely. That's pretty much my philosophy in a nutshell.

[mylkoa]

edit: deleted accidental duplicate post

[mylkoa]

Another thing I noticed...Track 7,9,10,11,and 12 do not have a CC for volume…

[mothergarage]

Does anyone have any ideas why they posted two sets? Or am I missing a difference between the two? In any case, since I can't find why Swazak posted two als's, I will ignore it for now.

I guess you meant this post.

The Swayzak Live Pack contains 2 Live Sets: "Swayset Live" and "Swayset Suite". The Suite version uses Operator, the Live version has the Operator tracks rendered as audio.

[mylkoa]

Thanks, Mother.

In the description they say "Clips are grouped by type (beats, bass, percussion etc) but we don't usually split a track into stems in order to replay it."

I wonder if that means that they usually just use a whole track in a clip? In that case, they would be launching whole scenes with this set... but I don't see that being the whole story, because if you only launch scenes with this set it sounds horrible...

The only way I have been making decent sounds with this set is to use it split into stems... actually, so far I only prefer 4 or 5 clips playing at a time... the master gate effect and the reverb send have been important for transitions... but I'm still exploring how one can tie the various clips of this set together.... and how to do build-ups and break-downs....