touchAble 3 is out! Now connects via simple USB cable & more

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Chris / touchAble
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:27 pm

Re: touchAble 3 is out! Now connects via simple USB cable & more

Post by Chris / touchAble » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:09 pm

fishmonkey wrote:
Chris / touchAble wrote:Hey fishmonkey,

thanks for the info, being able to quit and restart is good.

erm, it is most certainly an error message though. why does the server need to continuously attempt to connect to all iDevices in that manner? i use other apps that have iPad apps, and they don't continually cause this error message. there must be a better way to implement things.
Yes, but i doubt these apps connect via USB. Unfortunately checking every few seconds if an app is available to connect to is the only way to achieve this on iOS.
Of course you are right - it's an error - it even says 'Error' - but it is an error by design and except the spamming, absolutely nothing to worry about! Getting the USB connection to work on iOS simply involves a bit of hacking, and is not supported officially by Apple at all.

fishmonkey
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Re: touchAble 3 is out! Now connects via simple USB cable & more

Post by fishmonkey » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:19 pm

Chris / touchAble wrote:
fishmonkey wrote:
Chris / touchAble wrote:Hey fishmonkey,

thanks for the info, being able to quit and restart is good.

erm, it is most certainly an error message though. why does the server need to continuously attempt to connect to all iDevices in that manner? i use other apps that have iPad apps, and they don't continually cause this error message. there must be a better way to implement things.
Yes, but i doubt these apps connect via USB. Unfortunately checking every few seconds if an app is available to connect to is the only way to achieve this on iOS.
Of course you are right - it's an error - it even says 'Error' - but it is an error by design and except the spamming, absolutely nothing to worry about! Getting the USB connection to work on iOS simply involves a bit of hacking, and is not supported officially by Apple at all.
ok, gotcha. is it not possible to use the method that iTunes and iPhoto use to detect when an iDevice is plugged in?
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

Chris / touchAble
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Re: touchAble 3 is out! Now connects via simple USB cable & more

Post by Chris / touchAble » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:36 pm

fishmonkey wrote:
ok, gotcha. is it not possible to use the method that iTunes and iPhoto use to detect when an iDevice is plugged in?
That's exactly the method we use: Our server sees an iDevice plugged in and tries to connect to the software daemon that handles the connection - which is included in the touchAble iOS app. If that is not running however, the server can't open the connection, and you see this message in the Console every few seconds. As soon as touchAble is started on the iDevice in question, these messages will stop appearing (There is one message for each iDevice connected, so if you have a phone connected while using touchAble on an iPad, you will still see it.
Apple has an advantage in this regard, as their daemons (iOS side) for iPhoto, iTunes etc are always running - without requiring the user to start an app :)

We use the Console.app pretty often for debugging, so we know these messages can definitely be quite annoying.. hopefully less of an issue now with the 'Quit' option!


Airyck - did it work out in the end? Or is it still lost in 'Connecting to Live..' ?

Cheers,
Chris

musikmachine
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Re: touchAble 3 is out! Now connects via simple USB cable & more

Post by musikmachine » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:48 pm

Chris might be biased lol but is this really a rival to Push?

I got lemur to use with Livekontrol but had teething problems getting it running and kinda gave up.

Tried the free live controllers as well but dunno, guess i prefer hardware controls but if it's good for getting into a creative flow with live i might pick it up or is it better for performing live with?

yur2die4
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Re: touchAble 3 is out! Now connects via simple USB cable & more

Post by yur2die4 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:13 pm

Push has the advantage of dedicated tactility.

But Touchable has the advantage of an interface that's extremely flexible.

I can do more on Touchable, and faster, than I can on Push. The browser functionality is better than Push.

If you get the in-app purchase of the instrument interfaces, then it is way beyond Push's capabilities. Essentially you have the devices you are used to using on Live, visually, but with multi-touch at your disposal, and in some cases some specialized functionality (beat repeat and reverb have extra 'performance' options).

I can do drums and notes from Touchable, but in all honesty, those function slightly more smoothly on Push. Only because we are talking physical vs tapping pixels on glass. Feature-wise, they've matched it tit for tat.

The note grid for midi clips is pretty sleek. If you are accustomed to drawing on a note grid, it might be superior to Push's step sequencer in many ways. Velocity can quickly be adjusted, you can nudge things easier, all the double and halving are there along with fold and scale options. It is faster in most ways, except that Push has the one advantage of again being physically tactile for drum sequencing. For myself, that alone does not trump Touchable, but it is a point to Push. For melodic sequencing it is no contest.

The browser is ridiculously easy. You see a list on the left. Press your finger on the device you want and drag it onto any available channel OR in device mode, onto any device chain.

If anything, i'd say they compliment eachother :)

musikmachine
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Re: touchAble 3 is out! Now connects via simple USB cable & more

Post by musikmachine » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:48 pm

So melodic sequencing is better on Touchable? I have maschine which i use from my drums so no problem there, in fact i can do melodic stuff as well.

I think the wifi and latency was one of the reasons i didn't dig deeper with iPad controllers, need ad hoc etc which i don't have on my desktop.

The browser and device control do sound really good so how's navigating and editing via the screens controls? I have found it hit or miss with the other control apps, that's what i meant about hardware; knobs are more responsive and precise but again latency may have been a factor in that.

fishmonkey
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Re: touchAble 3 is out! Now connects via simple USB cable & more

Post by fishmonkey » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:18 am

Chris / touchAble wrote:
fishmonkey wrote:
ok, gotcha. is it not possible to use the method that iTunes and iPhoto use to detect when an iDevice is plugged in?
That's exactly the method we use: Our server sees an iDevice plugged in and tries to connect to the software daemon that handles the connection - which is included in the touchAble iOS app. If that is not running however, the server can't open the connection, and you see this message in the Console every few seconds. As soon as touchAble is started on the iDevice in question, these messages will stop appearing (There is one message for each iDevice connected, so if you have a phone connected while using touchAble on an iPad, you will still see it.
Apple has an advantage in this regard, as their daemons (iOS side) for iPhoto, iTunes etc are always running - without requiring the user to start an app :)

We use the Console.app pretty often for debugging, so we know these messages can definitely be quite annoying.. hopefully less of an issue now with the 'Quit' option!

Cheers,
Chris
okay, well then how about making it possible to configure the touchAble server to only try and connect to specific devices?
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

Chris / touchAble
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:27 pm

Re: touchAble 3 is out! Now connects via simple USB cable & more

Post by Chris / touchAble » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:00 am

fishmonkey wrote:
okay, well then how about making it possible to configure the touchAble server to only try and connect to specific devices?
That's in fact a pretty good idea! We'll add this :)
On another note: in the upcoming update for the app side, touchAble will start to run completely in the background, no more reconnect when you switch back and forth between touchAble and another app, or after waking the iPad from sleep. So as long as touchAble is running on the iPad, even in the background, it will stay connected without spitting out these messages.

sonik777
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Re: touchAble 3 is out! Now connects via simple USB cable & more

Post by sonik777 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:55 am

How's that Android version coming along?

;)

drez
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Re: touchAble 3 is out! Now connects via simple USB cable & more

Post by drez » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:34 pm

yur2die4 wrote:Push has the advantage of dedicated tactility.

But Touchable has the advantage of an interface that's extremely flexible.

I can do more on Touchable, and faster, than I can on Push. The browser functionality is better than Push.

If you get the in-app purchase of the instrument interfaces, then it is way beyond Push's capabilities. Essentially you have the devices you are used to using on Live, visually, but with multi-touch at your disposal, and in some cases some specialized functionality (beat repeat and reverb have extra 'performance' options).

I can do drums and notes from Touchable, but in all honesty, those function slightly more smoothly on Push. Only because we are talking physical vs tapping pixels on glass. Feature-wise, they've matched it tit for tat.

The note grid for midi clips is pretty sleek. If you are accustomed to drawing on a note grid, it might be superior to Push's step sequencer in many ways. Velocity can quickly be adjusted, you can nudge things easier, all the double and halving are there along with fold and scale options. It is faster in most ways, except that Push has the one advantage of again being physically tactile for drum sequencing. For myself, that alone does not trump Touchable, but it is a point to Push. For melodic sequencing it is no contest.

The browser is ridiculously easy. You see a list on the left. Press your finger on the device you want and drag it onto any available channel OR in device mode, onto any device chain.

If anything, i'd say they compliment eachother :)
I agree with this assessment. I have both and use both at the same time. Some things are better on each, so why not leverage them both?
http://www.twitter.com/dreznicek
http://www.soundcloud.com/dreznicek
MacBook Pro Retina Laptop, 2.7Ghz i7, 16Gig RAM, 500G SSD, Live 9, Push, Novation SL25 Mk2, iPad (TouchOSC, Lemur, Touch-Able), Reason

musikmachine
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:56 am

Re: touchAble 3 is out! Now connects via simple USB cable & more

Post by musikmachine » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:54 pm

drez wrote:
yur2die4 wrote:Push has the advantage of dedicated tactility.

But Touchable has the advantage of an interface that's extremely flexible.

I can do more on Touchable, and faster, than I can on Push. The browser functionality is better than Push.

If you get the in-app purchase of the instrument interfaces, then it is way beyond Push's capabilities. Essentially you have the devices you are used to using on Live, visually, but with multi-touch at your disposal, and in some cases some specialized functionality (beat repeat and reverb have extra 'performance' options).

I can do drums and notes from Touchable, but in all honesty, those function slightly more smoothly on Push. Only because we are talking physical vs tapping pixels on glass. Feature-wise, they've matched it tit for tat.

The note grid for midi clips is pretty sleek. If you are accustomed to drawing on a note grid, it might be superior to Push's step sequencer in many ways. Velocity can quickly be adjusted, you can nudge things easier, all the double and halving are there along with fold and scale options. It is faster in most ways, except that Push has the one advantage of again being physically tactile for drum sequencing. For myself, that alone does not trump Touchable, but it is a point to Push. For melodic sequencing it is no contest.

The browser is ridiculously easy. You see a list on the left. Press your finger on the device you want and drag it onto any available channel OR in device mode, onto any device chain.

If anything, i'd say they compliment eachother :)
I agree with this assessment. I have both and use both at the same time. Some things are better on each, so why not leverage them both?
Moniez. ;)

That and i do most of my creating with maschine but am mainly interested in the browsing and device control and the note grid for adjusting things like velocities, just depends how fluid it is in use, will it replace the mouse etc.

drez
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Re: touchAble 3 is out! Now connects via simple USB cable & more

Post by drez » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:05 pm

musikmachine wrote:
drez wrote: I agree with this assessment. I have both and use both at the same time. Some things are better on each, so why not leverage them both?
Moniez. ;)

That and i do most of my creating with maschine but am mainly interested in the browsing and device control and the note grid for adjusting things like velocities, just depends how fluid it is in use, will it replace the mouse etc.
Fair point. I play 90% of what I write on Push, meaning "in real time". I play all my melody lines in real time, sequence drums in real time, chord progressions I build while looping. Then I go in and edit those "clips" with the mouse. Its just much easier to adjust things that are "details" with a detailed tool: the mouse. I guess I use the Push as a "creating" tool, not an "editing" tool, if that makes sense.

Just because I have a hammer doesn't mean everything is a nail :)
http://www.twitter.com/dreznicek
http://www.soundcloud.com/dreznicek
MacBook Pro Retina Laptop, 2.7Ghz i7, 16Gig RAM, 500G SSD, Live 9, Push, Novation SL25 Mk2, iPad (TouchOSC, Lemur, Touch-Able), Reason

musikmachine
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Re: touchAble 3 is out! Now connects via simple USB cable & more

Post by musikmachine » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:30 pm

There's probably a myriad of ways i could use it, i was kinda curious how good the melodic sequencing is and sounds like yur2die4 favors it over Push which afaik is one of the main features of Push.

There's only a handful of videos i can find of T3 but it'd be good too se someone performing with it, loading stuff from the browser editing parameters etc.

I've read Touchable is the best on iOS but there's also the paid one for Lemur which looks pretty good. USB connection gives T3 the edge though.

Does most of what's available on the Touchable website apply to Touchable 3 then?

musikmachine
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Re: touchAble 3 is out! Now connects via simple USB cable & more

Post by musikmachine » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:21 pm

I'm just watching the videos and i could totally leverage this with maschine with the xy controls and fx toggles; maschine for the sounds and T3 Live for clip triggers, momentary fx toggles and clip editing of velocities and things like that. Really well thought out app.

So does the usb connection work with the iconnect midi cause i could plug a midi controller into that, just trying to work out how i'd use that without wifi; could Touchable receive midi from other controllers via Live's midi routing?

And finally are all the templates shown in the videos included or are they part of the add-on?

yur2die4
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Re: touchAble 3 is out! Now connects via simple USB cable & more

Post by yur2die4 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:36 pm

The midi thing is actually something I have not experimented much with. And it might be a frustrating ordeal in theory??

From what I gather, it uses a certain hack through iTunes in order to transmit and receive data with Live. This allows it to have the extra functionality but I'm pretty sure that it does not at its heart send/receive midi through the wired connection.

On the other hand, if you're at home, the wifi connection is quite good, just, if you planned to do a set outside of home, you'd want to really test out your setup under stress to see if it'll work out.

I think the midi into ipad option is mostly intended for when it is in wifi mode. I can't imagine how one would connect both the wired touchable connection AND a usb midi device. If there is a way to do that I'd love to hear it :D

Bluetooth midi is slowly picking up out there, but I still feel like it leaves a lot to be desired in how responsive and predictable it is.

As a side-warning: be careful if you get an iPad, it becomes addicting to get music apps! A lot of fun and inspiring tools out there. For times when you need a break from the studio (limitations and unique interfaces are very inspiring, so is having insanely powerful synthesizers haha). For the price of an iPad and a few apps, you have a multitude of full fledged, great sounding synths without requiring an outlet plugged into a wall.

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