Question about Cracked Versions

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Oh but they do. The only difference is that Microsoft only releases a major upgrade every 4 years or so instead of every year and charges 2 to 300 bucks for the trouble instead of nothing. I wouldn't have touched Windows 8 with a ten foot pole even for basic functionality when it was released, let alone for critical production work. Same for Windows Vista or any version of Windows really. Every Windows user (myself included, I own a custom gaming rig and a rMBP so I'm familiar with both OSs in case you'd think I was some Apple fanboy) knows it is wise to wait for the first service pack before even considering a new Windows version.

In fact, I still use Windows 7. Same with OS X. It's perfectly fine to upgrade to the latest OS X version after a few weeks once your audio interface and production software is officially compatible but even then nobody's forcing you. Just because it's free and shiny doesn't mean you have to. I know many people who are still very happy with Snow Leopard.

Speaking of software nothing has been broken for me since win XP, to vista, then win 7 and win 8. Old stuff keeps running. I have never had to wait for a software company to release an update because windows broke somethin or I havent been able to use the old software because MS removed a library. That stufff very rarely happens on windowns.

Drivers might be more tricky but I would say it's not common you cant use an old driver in a new OS.

On both platforms you are not forced to upgrade, but on OSX once you start using more Apple stuff (ipad, iPhone, Logic , iTunes) there is more pressure.

Software developers are also starting to move along Apple updates, not continuing support for old OSX versions. This forces to update the OSX if you wanna get the latest. This doesnt happens on Windows.

So to conclude: the problem right now with OSX is that Apple wants to upgrade OSX every year, and they dont care if they break stuff, for them it's the software developers problem if they dont keep up. This way of development doesnt seems very compatible with pro applications which require stable set ups.

[CanadianBassPunk]

To mister whiny:

You certainly have an issue that is unpleasant and I can see how you would expect old(er) software to run on your new system.

BUT:

A: is it really Abletons responsibility to keep 5 year old software up to date to run on even the newest OS?
Where would that stop? Maybe someone still has Live 2. Would you find it reasonable to expect that to still run?!

Mr. Whiny here! Interesting question. Since I am a software engineer by day trade, I will say "partly". Why? Most of the world has recognized the problems with software that is packaged in CD's. It is basically obsolete weeks after being sold. True that Apple does bear the bulk of the responsibility, but I would hope Ableton could maybe take a lesson from others and explore this direction. I've talked to a few people at Ableton in the past and I would encourage them to move into subscription based pricing.

I would expect most software to run for at least 6-9 months after buying it. Now you are right, this is not Ableton's fault and Apple is certainly the one's who are perhaps trying to have an uncompetative edge.

B: Apple changed the framework, not Ableton. So why is your anger directed at Ableton

It's a stretch to say "angry" but definitely I think Ableton needs to take a look at software engineering and licensing and perhaps look at what others are doing. The reason the rest of the world is moving int this area is that the software is more stable, less buggy and ultimately cheeper for end users and the company that publishes it. That would mean we all (Ableton and its customers) spend less money and enjoy better software. I would argue that is worth looking at, whining or not.

C: When new OSes come out, old things are made obsolete. That's how that game works. Otherwise new OSes could not go new routes and adapt to new challenges.

Uh yeah... I am in the business and know that. No one expects version 1 to work on an OS written ten years later.

D: How in the world does your problem tie in with cracked software?! (<-- this is what made your posts the most douchy)

Ultimately this is a conversation about what drives people to crack software. There are many people who do use cracked software simply because they feel (whether legitimate or not) that they have been wronged by the publisher. I do not use cracked software myself, but I do understand why a company failing to acknowledge certain problems could lead people to "think" they are entitled to crack it. Whether or not you agree with it, it does exist. You can turn your back on it and believe it is just wrong, but to solve a problem, you have to understand why the problem is there in the first case. Calling my posts doughy for exploring that???

Open a new thread, explain your problem (Live 7 in OSX Yosemite what to do?!) Try to find out which of the last OSX versions was still running Live 7. Either here on the forum or with Ableton support.
Maybe reverting back to Snow Leopard (which you say doesn't support retina) is not necessary. Maybe Mavericks can still run it?!

As I explained earlier, I have already researched it. I am switching to Windows 7 which seems to be stable so far.

A final note:
A Punk that steals software? Sure, I can see that. I may not like it, but at least it's consistent with the whole Anarchy anti-establishment thing.
A Punk that whines on a forum about not every capitalist company he ever bought a product from catering to his every need? Yeah, N O !
Have some dignity, ffs

OOhhhh !! Troll bait!! Woot! A musician troll hiding in his natural habitat?

I don't steal software. The troll bait with the big salt in the wound at the end of a well disguised insult?? Not going to touch that. You got me. I have no dignity... oh wait... that is why I'm a F43ing punk!!

[CanadianBassPunk]

@D - major thanks for the help on the phone! Most appreciated.

@TomVoilenz - sorry dude. I took your bait and I shouldn't have. Still, don't serve me. I'm not here to ruffle people. I'm here to discuss cracked software, constructive ways to fix etc. Let's keep it civil?

So here is an update. I've successfully been running Ableton 7 on Windows in a VMWare instance and I have to say I am actually very impressed with the performance. The latency running in a virtual image is almost identical to running it natively. Running very strong.

problem solved!

/cbp

[BoddAH]

Speaking of software nothing has been broken for me since win XP, to vista, then win 7 and win 8. Old stuff keeps running. I have never had to wait for a software company to release an update because windows broke somethin or I havent been able to use the old software because MS removed a library. That stufff very rarely happens on windowns.

The only reason Windows tends to keep somehow working is because Microsoft never actually changes anything. Every new version is just the same old crap with a shiny new skin, a couple new "features" nobody needs and half a dozen arbitrary UI changes that piss off everyone. Oh, and a shit ton of new bugs, vulnerabilities and instabilities that needs 2 or 3 years to be fixed until the next broken version comes around.

Sure, improvements and tweaks on CoreAudio and other subsystems are bound to make some drivers wobbly on new versions of OS X until the manufacturers update them. But at least Apple tend to keep actually improving the code by making it more efficient and adding low-level features that are actually useful, all the while removing old crap that is obsolete to keep it clean.

Modern versions of Windows are sluggish, 25 GB heaps of legacy bullshit and old code with new crap just being tacked on with each release. But hey, at least those businesses that are too lazy to have an actual IT department can keep using Office 97 so I guess it's fine.

[login]

Speaking of software nothing has been broken for me since win XP, to vista, then win 7 and win 8. Old stuff keeps running. I have never had to wait for a software company to release an update because windows broke somethin or I havent been able to use the old software because MS removed a library. That stufff very rarely happens on windowns.

The only reason Windows tends to keep somehow working is because Microsoft never actually changes anything. Every new version is just the same old crap with a shiny new skin, a couple new "features" nobody needs and half a dozen arbitrary UI changes that piss off everyone. Oh, and a shit ton of new bugs, vulnerabilities and instabilities that needs 2 or 3 years to be fixed until the next broken version comes around.

Sure, improvements and tweaks on CoreAudio and other subsystems are bound to make some drivers wobbly on new versions of OS X until the manufacturers update them. But at least Apple tend to keep actually improving the code by making it more efficient and adding low-level features that are actually useful, all the while removing old crap that is obsolete to keep it clean.

Modern versions of Windows are sluggish, 25 GB heaps of legacy bullshit and old code with new crap just being tacked on with each release. But hey, at least those businesses that are too lazy to have an actual IT department can keep using Office 97 so I guess it's fine.

Well while I can agree with this it's in fact teh point of the discussion: Do you wanna be on the cutting edge? then swallow the costs.

If not, there is is windows for the dudes who can't or don't want to upgrade each year.

I prefer to upgrade when I want and for me windows works very well and performs well, the hardware is cheaper and you can get more powerfull hardware too.

[mmorgan]

The reason the rest of the world is moving int this area is that the software is more stable, less buggy and ultimately cheeper for end users and the company that publishes it.

Personally I find it hard to buy into the idea that a software company would adopt a business model that reduces their revenue stream by making software "cheaper". My take is that this model of doing business, i.e. subscription based licensing, is to increase revenue.

Cakewalk has adopted a "Membership" program in the latest release of their flagship product. Users can pay the whole cost up front or pay over time. I think they did a pretty good job of understanding that it is important for users to be able to retain their license once they have paid the total amount...and once they have they stop paying the "subscription fee". I've heard of other models that if you stop paying your monthly fee you lose the ability to access the software. That is a complete mind f for me.

Suppose I don't want version NEW...I have to pay and pay and pay for ever to use the software. How is that "cheaper"

[CanadianBassPunk]

The reason the rest of the world is moving int this area is that the software is more stable, less buggy and ultimately cheeper for end users and the company that publishes it.

Personally I find it hard to buy into the idea that a software company would adopt a business model that reduces their revenue stream by making software "cheaper". My take is that this model of doing business, i.e. subscription based licensing, is to increase revenue.

I didn't say anything about making "less money" for the company. I stated "cheaper" (mis-spelled - grrr!) meaning it is also much cheaper for Ableton to create and bring the software to market. A Cloud or SaaS model is more efficient to implement.

So you are correct. The end result would be an increased profit for Ableton. Overall, I would suspect their revenue model would also rise given many people who now won't dump a large chunk of money on to the packaged software will buy into a subscription. The end result is that more people are paying for the software (less per person but more overall) and Ableton has less engineering costs which also equals more profit.

It is a win-win.

/cbp

[CanadianBassPunk]

Cakewalk has adopted a "Membership" program in the latest release of their flagship product. Users can pay the whole cost up front or pay over time. I think they did a pretty good job of understanding that it is important for users to be able to retain their license once they have paid the total amount...and once they have they stop paying the "subscription fee". I've heard of other models that if you stop paying your monthly fee you lose the ability to access the software. That is a complete mind f for me.

Which is why I would suspect that a smart company would offer both options. Either pay up front or pay as you go. Both models are valid and each user can have their options.

Sounds like Cakewalk nailed it. Yeah, I loathe companies that pull the rug out from you if you stop. I didn't agree with Adobe's move to ONLY subscription as it is a "pay through the nose until you die" program. Fully agree with you - evil!!!

The two options have historically pulled in a large percent of people who otherwise cracked the software. That is also a plus for the publisher.

cheers,

/cbp

[DJM007]

Hello I Love my ablenton 9 lite I wish with all my heart Ihad 9 suite. I just can't afford it otherwise I would be rocking with it. I don't believe in stealing and that's what Ifeel useing a cracked verson.would be.
So I wait and save and.wait and save. But life get in the way and Ihave to use the money I was saving.
Mostly, to keep my truck on the road to make the money to wait and save.

So for as bad as I want suite, ill wait keep playing with 9 lite with my (AKAI) APC 40 and my APC 20
And enjoy what I have and still feel blessed with what I have.

I'm running mine on windows cause I can't.afford the Mac I want........ if you creat. Cause you want to make money why do it on somthing that someone else created by stealing it knowing they created it to make money

Plus its just wrong to steal.

[DJM007]

Paying membership or by month just sucks IMOP if that happens here ill stop and find new soft ware.

[Stromkraft]

the problem right now with OSX is that Apple wants to upgrade OSX every year, and they dont care if they break stuff, for them it's the software developers problem if they dont keep up. This way of development doesnt seems very compatible with pro applications which require stable set ups.

I agree.