Any music therapists here?

Idonotlikebroccoli · Post by **Idonotlikebroccoli** » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:01 pm

I'm curious to learn more about music therapy, and hear about people's experiences with it.

My father works as a music therapist, and showed me this amazing documentary called Alive Inside. It's just staggering to see people in a near vegetative state light up like that.
- Preview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaB5Egej0TQ
- Full documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erhVJGrENEo
- Alternative link: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... ntary+full

As an anecdote, my father worked with a woman in a psychiatric institution who had stopped singing all together. Last year, she sang in front of a full concert hall in our hometown.

He also mentions how it's less of a patient-therapist thing, and more about people just coming together to sing/play/record music.

Muze · Post by **Muze** » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:05 am

I'm an occupational therapist and musician and a clinical specialist in working with people with dementia, I have used music for many years and seen many examples of this; music memory is highly preserved in dementia (so is memory for things like dance) so it's a fantastic way to activate and enable people.

TomViolenz · Post by **TomViolenz** » Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:14 pm

I once thought music could cure my insanity...........

.........I know better now!

re:dream · Post by **re:dream** » Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:02 pm

Oliver Sacks has written about this a lot; both in Musicophilia and The Man who mistook his wife for a hat...

Regarding the preservation of musical memory - also check out this nice little Radiolab episode about Clive Wearing
http://www.radiolab.org/story/91578-clive/

BaronVonAbelDong · Post by **BaronVonAbelDong** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:55 pm

Idonotlikebroccoli wrote: My father works as a music therapist, and showed me this amazing documentary called Alive Inside. It's just staggering to see people in a near vegetative state light up like that.
- Preview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaB5Egej0TQ
- Full documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erhVJGrENEo
- Alternative link: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... ntary+full

re:dream wrote: Regarding the preservation of musical memory - also check out this nice little Radiolab episode about Clive Wearing
http://www.radiolab.org/story/91578-clive/

Thanks for taking the time to share the links.

yur2die4 · Post by **yur2die4** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:31 am

I really like this. I wish it wasn't headphones though! Speakers might be better for several reasons.

Idonotlikebroccoli · Post by **Idonotlikebroccoli** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:50 am

Well, speakers can potentially annoy those who prefer silence. I imagine having someone play guitar or piano would be better. Then it would be more social, and it wouldn't last long enough to become tiring. Then they'd have their headphones, which are available 24/7.

re:dream - thanks for the links! I'll check them out.

ambientidm · Post by **ambientidm** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:27 am

i have my ma in expressive therapies from lesley university
expressive therapies uses many different art modalities for healing
i myself use bodywork, special designed music, movement and art to bring about healing

nordoff-robbins are pretty much my heroes when it comes to music therapy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CuAjiU7RBg

music as a healing agent has an ancient history
music as entertainment is a new idea and a rather shallow one at that

1 Samuel 16:23
So it came about whenever the evil spirit from God came to Saul, David would take the harp and play it with his hand; and Saul would be refreshed and be well, and the evil spirit would depart from him.

ambientidm · Post by **ambientidm** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:34 am

not music related but expressive therapy related
this work is very close to my heart
Dora Kalff at the direction from Carl Jung developed Sandplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWd40dMH70c

ambientidm · Post by **ambientidm** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:37 am

I'm happy to answer anyones questions about this work if they wish

TomViolenz · Post by **TomViolenz** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:13 am

ambientidm wrote: 1 Samuel 16:23
So it came about whenever the evil spirit from God came to Saul, David would take the harp and play it with his hand; and Saul would be refreshed and be well, and the evil spirit would depart from him.

No RELIGION in the FORUMS

Besides you're not really helping with raising the credibilty of your field by quoting ancient made up stories that never made any sense to begin with

The whole C.G. Jung thing should already be enough of an uphill battle.
I mean not to take away from the achievements of the man, or even Sigmund Freuds, but Psychoanalysis (this is not even going into things like his pseudo religious Collective Unconcious and things like his Archetypes) is seen nowadays to be related to modern Psychotherapy and the Neurosciences, as Alchemy is to Chemistry and Physics.
Which is to say they were absolutely instrumental in establishing the science of matter and maybe even the whole scientific method (Alchemy) and the science of the mind (Psychoanalysis), but their notions and axioms have been utterly dispoven (Alchemy) or shown to be wholy unsupportable (Psychoanalysis).

So be careful what you draw from their teachings when you try to apply them to patients in your care! You could be doing more harm than good.

spacecat · Post by **spacecat** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:33 am

I started watching it.. Kinda started out good...

But i had to stop it as the flooding of apple advertisement made me sick..
Welcome apple music:)

ambientidm · Post by **ambientidm** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:22 pm

TomViolenz wrote:
ambientidm wrote: 1 Samuel 16:23
So it came about whenever the evil spirit from God came to Saul, David would take the harp and play it with his hand; and Saul would be refreshed and be well, and the evil spirit would depart from him.
No RELIGION in the FORUMS

Besides you're not really helping with raising the credibilty of your field by quoting ancient made up stories that never made any sense to begin with

The whole C.G. Jung thing should already be enough of an uphill battle.
I mean not to take away from the achievements of the man, or even Sigmund Freuds, but Psychoanalysis (this is not even going into things like his pseudo religious Collective Unconcious and things like his Archetypes) is seen nowadays to be related to modern Psychotherapy and the Neurosciences, as Alchemy is to Chemistry and Physics.
Which is to say they were absolutely instrumental in establishing the science of matter and maybe even the whole scientific method (Alchemy) and the science of the mind (Psychoanalysis), but their notions and axioms have been utterly dispoven (Alchemy) or shown to be wholy unsupportable (Psychoanalysis).

So be careful what you draw from their teachings when you try to apply them to patients in your care! You could be doing more harm than good.

no religion in the forums? don't read my posts then (there are few communist regimes left that would agree with you)
if it's just a fable to you why even bother mentioning it at all? why even respond to this supposed fool that believes in fairy tales?
or are you one the new generation of hyper offended people plaguing the world and attempting to crush the free discussion ideas and speech
the internet is too big for people that are terrified of reading words and ideas that they may not like

are you a trained psychotherapist or counseling psychologist?
if you are one you are not very professional because you want to give me advice on how i should treat my clients and you don't even know me let alone supervise me
because i mention jung you think I'm a jungian analyst? i don't get it
freund and jung are disproved? really?
they were never proved to begin with (the subjects they dealt in cannot be "proved") but their ideas had a massive impact on the world and still do to this very day as does bf skinner unfortunately
psychotherapy isn't based on "proof" it's based on results measured by change in a person's mental well being

im not offended by what you wrote but it seems like an absurd extrapolation on what i wrote

TomViolenz · Post by **TomViolenz** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:13 pm

ambientidm wrote: no religion in the forums? don't read my posts then (there are few communist regimes left that would agree with you)
if it's just a fable to you why even bother mentioning it at all? why even respond to this supposed fool that believes in fairy tales?
or are you one the new generation of hyper offended people plaguing the world and attempting to crush the free discussion ideas and speech
the internet is too big for people that are terrified of reading words and ideas that they may not like

Sorry for the confusion. The No religion rule is not my idea (I'm actually very much against it), but it's forum policy as dictated by Ableton. Read the Forum Guidelines if you don't believe me.

I don't think you would be much happier with what I would write in a free exchange of ideas though.

And btw. there are unfortunately no communist countries on this planet nor have there every been any. But Politics is also forbidden as a discussion topic. So sorry, could have been interesting.

are you a trained psychotherapist or counseling psychologist?

No just an interested bystander with training in the scientific method.

if you are one you are not very professional because you want to give me advice on how i should treat my clients and you don't even know me let alone supervise me

I didn't. I voiced a warning. One I think is rather warranted given how fanatical and unquestioning you seem to respond to my criticism

because i mention jung you think I'm a jungian analyst? i don't get it
freund and jung are disproved? really?
they were never proved to begin with (the subjects they dealt in cannot be "proved") but their ideas had a massive impact on the world and still do to this very day

Which is exactly what I wrote
It just seems I draw different conclusions from it.
To treat patients with unsupported by evidence philosophies is rather reckless in my opinion. No matter how much influence they had on the science they helped to find. Because much of the progress in the early field came about, because more and more people who did apply the scientific method to Psychoanalysis ended up empty handed. So in a way, they kick started the field, because they a.) were the first to systematically think about the mind, for which they deserve all the respect they got and b.) because they were just so hopelessly wrong on almost anything (not really their fault, they were pretty much fishing in the dark at the time)

psychotherapy isn't based on "proof" it's based on results measured by change in a person's mental well being

You are aware that you just described some tenets of the scientific method?!
Which as a post enlightenment society we accepted as the basis for all our science founded dealings. Instead of using scripture for it.
And if I may say so: It has served us rather well, wouldn't you agree?!

ambientidm · Post by **ambientidm** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:56 pm

TomViolenz wrote:
ambientidm wrote: no religion in the forums? don't read my posts then (there are few communist regimes left that would agree with you)
if it's just a fable to you why even bother mentioning it at all? why even respond to this supposed fool that believes in fairy tales?
or are you one the new generation of hyper offended people plaguing the world and attempting to crush the free discussion ideas and speech
the internet is too big for people that are terrified of reading words and ideas that they may not like
Sorry for the confusion. The No religion rule is not my idea (I'm actually very much against it), but it's forum policy as dictated by Ableton. Read the Forum Guidelines if you don't believe me.

I don't think you would be much happier with what I would write in a free exchange of ideas though.

And btw. there are unfortunately no communist countries on this planet nor have there every been any. But Politics is also forbidden as a discussion topic. So sorry, could have been interesting.
are you a trained psychotherapist or counseling psychologist?
No just an interested bystander with training in the scientific method.
if you are one you are not very professional because you want to give me advice on how i should treat my clients and you don't even know me let alone supervise me
I didn't. I voiced a warning. One I think is rather warranted given how fanatical and unquestioning you seem to respond to my criticism
because i mention jung you think I'm a jungian analyst? i don't get it
freund and jung are disproved? really?
they were never proved to begin with (the subjects they dealt in cannot be "proved") but their ideas had a massive impact on the world and still do to this very day
Which is exactly what I wrote
It just seems I draw different conclusions from it.
To treat patients with unsupported by evidence philosophies is rather reckless in my opinion. No matter how much influence they had on the science they helped to find. Because much of the progress in the early field came about, because more and more people who did apply the scientific method to Psychoanalysis ended up empty handed. So in a way, they kick started the field, because they a.) were the first to systematically think about the mind, for which they deserve all the respect they got and b.) because they were just so hopelessly wrong on almost anything (not really their fault, they were pretty much fishing in the dark at the time)
psychotherapy isn't based on "proof" it's based on results measured by change in a person's mental well being
You are aware that you just described some tenets of the scientific method?!
Which as a post enlightenment society we accepted as the basis for all our science founded dealings. Instead of using scripture for it.
And if I may say so: It has served us rather well, wouldn't you agree?!

thanks for clarifying

well science and are our ideas of the world have continuously changed throughout history and i think it serves everyone well if we maintain an attitude of humility (the history of science and psychology demands humility actually)
the argument could be made that science has done as much harm as it has good and the same argument could be made for psychology and religion or the lack of it
the issue is that human beings way deep down inside are evil at the core
it does't always surface though, in fact some of our evil natures are so deep that we cannot even see it
we create heart transplants and chemical, nuclear and biological weapons that kill indiscriminately some of us are dedicated to saving and healing yet as a whole we cannot stop killing each other out of jealousy, hate, greed and lust
science has no cure or answer for that and it never will
and neither does psychology
religion fills the gap between science and psychology
science being man's observation of the material world and psychology as man's observation of the self or soul
the world religions are broken into two camps
the first is man trying to please God and the second one is God trying to save man from himself
the question remains "how can an evil human beings ever please a Holy God?"

if ableton does't want me to mention my faith then that is fine by me
i am here as a contributor and if my contributions are unwelcome i am fine with leaving
feel free to report me to the authorities if you wish
I'm sure ableton is still fine with taking my money
this forum use to be a lot more interesting in the past when it was more like the wild west but when you start to implement the "thou shall not says" into the mix blandness is sure to arise
it's something about the improvisational and openness of Live itself
do you think any other boards have these kinds of discussions?

Any music therapists here?

Any music therapists here?

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