Hate Composing - Do you?

[TomViolenz]

The whole preference to just perform for friends and not record kind of gave me a chuckle. Reminds me of recording DJ sets at a gig. Whatever you thought was brilliant in the moment coupled with crowd reaction and whatever alcohol/drugs you might have been on doesn’t always sound so great just sitting there and listening to it after the fact.

Well if you leave it at that, sure. But if you put in the work to learn what wasn't so great, and try to avoid it in the future, you started the necessary process to become actually good. And not just to drunk crowds.

[H20nly]

This is why I switched to Logic years ago. Even if I don’t finish a track I still have something linearly to show for it.

Strange. I tend to build up a rough arrangement of parts in Live's arrangement as I am creating the first riffs in Session.
There's actually no way in Session to get it to the things I need because you can't chain session clips together to make sections (follow actions are total bollocks).
It's much quicker and easier to put the different riffs in a row in arrangement. I always do that before I close the app, because otherwise when I re-open a session in 3 months time there's no saying I'm hearing the session as it was intended to be when I last played it. The various session clips might have got de-selected, or I accidentally saved in a state where I was trying parts out against each other. and then you are fucked. Nothing sounds right.
So I lay a rough arrangement in session and it's a reminder of what I was thinking - for next time.

Also - arrangement view is the only place to do micro edits, these just aren't possible in session. Want to try out the fill from pattern 4 in the last beat of pattern 12? In arrangement I can just drop that tiny segment onto the relevant bar. In session I'd have to duplicate clips, rename, copy sections from other sections. A total PITA. In arrangement it's all completely visual and easy so I do a lot of work there.

Ableton really need to do some work on Session to support sections, but that's not likely to happen unless they feel the heat from Bitwig actually doing things in that area.

Motherfucking METACLIPS (2005)

that's how i see it too... i can't control session while i'm recording vocals in a way that is helpful to me for recording... for practicing, maybe. for recording, no.

for me session is a way of putting all the tidbits together... a sample here, a MIDI phrase there, but it does little for me in terms of... well, composing. it's more like a test space.

+1 for Metaclips

[beats me]

The whole preference to just perform for friends and not record kind of gave me a chuckle. Reminds me of recording DJ sets at a gig. Whatever you thought was brilliant in the moment coupled with crowd reaction and whatever alcohol/drugs you might have been on doesn’t always sound so great just sitting there and listening to it after the fact.

Well if you leave it at that, sure. But if you put in the work to learn what wasn't so great, and try to avoid it in the future, you started the necessary process to become actually good. And not just to drunk crowds.

Not disagreeing with that. But it can be hard enough to finish a focused sober studio track. When you perform it, it at least feels like actively did something in the moment with some feeling. Not so much the same feeling drawing in automation.

[TomViolenz]

The whole preference to just perform for friends and not record kind of gave me a chuckle. Reminds me of recording DJ sets at a gig. Whatever you thought was brilliant in the moment coupled with crowd reaction and whatever alcohol/drugs you might have been on doesn’t always sound so great just sitting there and listening to it after the fact.

Well if you leave it at that, sure. But if you put in the work to learn what wasn't so great, and try to avoid it in the future, you started the necessary process to become actually good. And not just to drunk crowds.

Not disagreeing with that. But it can be hard enough to finish a focused sober studio track. When you perform it, it at least feels like actively did something in the moment with some feeling. Not so much the same feeling drawing in automation.

Yeah, I think one necessity is to control as much as possible with some nice faders, knobs and on occasion encoders. Drawing with the mouse kills most of the in-the-moment feeling.

I think a good controller set up for live performance is also a good one for getting down fluid arrangements.

[DeeJay1657]

If youre in creative block, just dink around until you make something you like. Trial and error.

[adam_mc]

Yeah, I have the APC 40(MK1) and Push and a Novation 25sl MSK2 which gives me plenty of stuff to twist and turn and adjust and control; that's all fabulous and great fun. Those things are great for performing (as previously mentioned, in my music room with friends over for drinks etc. nothing impressive) but the composition of a track bringing all the elements together in the arrangement view remains the grind.

I think I could do with finding a partner who has musical interests like myself who I can share my ideas with and also have my ideas challenged; I think I am suffering from the relatively reclusive nature of my music making.

[Idonotlikebroccoli]

I find the arrangement view to be a relief, since I finally get to add some variation to my 4/8/16 bar scenes.

[Stromkraft]

This is why I switched to Logic years ago. Even if I don’t finish a track I still have something linearly to show for it.

Well, there's nothing stopping anyone from working strictly in Arrangement view. I've seen many DnB artists doing that for some reason.

There are creative advantages to it for sure.

The problem I have with Session view is that it gets messy really quick. Especially if I wasn't there from the get go. I have deciphered too many chaotic projects finding variations of clips to get some gems to use for arrangement.

It might be a wise strategy to start your song in Arrangement and then copy sections that work well to Session for improvisations.

[Tarekith]

Session view for me is always for quick tasks or arranging a live set for some other software/hardware. If I'm writing songs I'm in arrangement view asap, too easy to get lost in the endless tweak in session view for me.

[dhpetrescu]

I'm in the same boat for the last few months since I started working with ableton I've only used session view. To me it's more like delayed gratification I've been really wanting to use arrangement View but I feel like I don't have all the proper tools yet. So as of now I have about a few hundred tracks set up in session view only. One of these days after I gain some more knowledge and more tools and plug-ins, I'll have a lot of arrangement to do. However, I am looking forward to it ... At least I think so. I love session view which is why I can't imagine using anything other than ableton. It's so easy to come up with a lot of ideas and work through a lot of options very quickly.

[beats me]

Maybe like how some demo plugs stop working after 30 minutes, there should be a feature in Live that forces you to record something to arrangement after screwing around in session view for an hour.

[Stromkraft]

I've been really wanting to use arrangement View but I feel like I don't have all the proper tools yet. So as of now I have about a few hundred tracks set up in session view only. One of these days after I gain some more knowledge and more tools and plug-ins, I'll have a lot of arrangement to do.
…
I love session view which is why I can't imagine using anything other than ableton. It's so easy to come up with a lot of ideas and work through a lot of options very quickly.

Quick sidebar here: When you do supper you do it with whatever you had in the bag coming home, right? Or do you really say "Ahh, I'll make supper when I got some tomatoes" or "Well, I''ll make supper when I've read this new cook book"?

Do and learn!

You have Live right? You don't "need" anything beyond that to finish off some tracks in Arrangement(or Session). There are no really valid excuses. Just do it.

You'll have plenty of time finding out just what plug-ins and other tools you really need. The same can be said for knowledge, focusing on the end result: finished tracks makes it easier to only learn what you really need. When you hit problems, that's what the forums and all those web sites are for.

OK, back to composing.

[irrelevance]

Maybe like how some demo plugs stop working after 30 minutes, there should be a feature in Live that forces you to record something to arrangement after screwing around in session view for an hour.

No thanks.

[irrelevance]

Since standardizing my setup using the same plugins for drums leads etc and controllers apc40mk2 and push I try not to over complicate things. Linear arrangements can turn into over produced polished to oblivion pieces which can sound great but don't bring the same sense of joy to me or the desire to repeatedly listen cause I've heard the damn thing too many times. I love session and I try not to second guess the product of performing and recording in session.

[suhler]

I find myself spending 95% of my time making tracks only in the session view and performing them in my studio for myself and friends but when it comes to the arrangement of the pieces into a track . . . my goodness I lose the will to live in 30 minutes max.

I actually only use the arrangement view. I like making a track from scratch. When I start in the session view I get to a good but not great result too quickly. This isn`t necessarily a bad thing, but the problem is that I am then kinda satisfied with it and rather play around with the clips instead of working on the track. In the arrangement view I am forced to really work with the available tools and fine-tune modulation for example, which makes good sounds sound great.

If you want to perform it live you can then split up your track into customised pieces and work with them in the session view.

But the great thing in ableton is, that it doesn`t matter how you do things. There are so many paths you can take to reach your goal