How to route a return channel's signal into a group?

[Auto2000]

Hi guys!
I like to route my tracks in a project into corresponding groups (the groups usually are: Drums, Leads, Pads, FX, etc...) so that I have control over similar channels at once and so that I can process them together during mixing.
One thing that I can't understand though is how to route return channels the same way: I want to route all my return channels into one track (or one group) to control and process them together.

However a strange thing happens when I'm trying to do it: if I route a return channel into a group and then solo that return channel, what I hear is... the whole project! All the tracks are sounding simultaneously, like if I didn't solo the return channel!

I shot a small video of what's happening:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uvvywsu0sg46t ... 6.mov?dl=0

At first the whole track plays, then I solo a drum group (all fine, just drums playing), then the Bass, the Synth, the Melody groups - all good, only the solo'd groups can be heard.

But then I route a return into a 'Sends' group and solo it... the whole project is being played!
What is going on and how can I do what I want to do?

Thank you in advance for all the kind help!

[Auto2000]

No one?

[silversurfer60]

Hi,

look at the different, when you solo normal tracks and return tracks. Solo doesn't work in return, if you solo one return track, the mute knob of the other return tracks doesn't change, in normal tracks it changed to grey. So the solution is, to mute all the return tracks except the one you want to hear.

[Auto2000]

Makes sense. Thank you for the reply!
So anyway, how do I do what I'm looking for?

[sounddevisor]

Return tracks have an "Audio To" drop-down menu, just like all other tracks. You should be able to create your "Return Group" track as an audio track, and then set the "Audio To" of each of your return tracks to "Return Group."

If I understood your question, that should give you the result you're looking for.

[Auto2000]

That's exactly what I'm doing right now, to no avail.
Can you try it yourself? I also thought it'd work.

[Stromkraft]

It seems that it's not possible for groups as groups already receive the audio from the tracks belonging to that group.

An existing group doesn't have to receive this audio. I use this method myself for side-chaining so I know that it works. It's important to turn off any sends you're not using on the receiving group or you'll get phasing issues.

[Stromkraft]

However a strange thing happens when I'm trying to do it: if I route a return channel into a group and then solo that return channel, what I hear is... the whole project! All the tracks are sounding simultaneously, like if I didn't solo the return channel!

What's going to the returns? You'll obviously hear every track that is sent to there.

[Auto2000]

That's obvious.
But instead, I hear every track in the project.

[Stromkraft]

That's obvious.
But instead, I hear every track in the project.

OK, I think you better share a version of this project. It's impossible to second guess what it could be. When I've experienced something like this I did inadvertently send audio indirectly to the returns without realizing it.

I have never experienced exactly what you describe and I think chances are you're missing something or you could be on to something. But If this can't be reproduced on another system that's information. So try it yourself on another system and let new eyes look at the project if this doesn't lead to the cause. You don't have to leave anything in it. Just leave the routings.

[silversurfer60]

Again,

look at the behavior of the solo and the mute knobs of the return tracks and the normal tracks, there is a big different. When you solo a normal track, in all other tracks the mute knob changed to grey!!! If you solo a return track, the mute knob of all other return tracks, with Audio to your group channel, will not change to grey, they will stay yellow, that means, they are not muted, they are audible.

This behavior is only, when you choose in the Audio to menue of your return tracks any other track then the master track. And that's the reason, why you hear all of your return tracks in your return group track. Your only solution is, to mute all the return tracks except the one you want to hear in your group return track.

You have only this choice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stromkraft]

That's obvious.
But instead, I hear every track in the project.

A simple test shows that soloing a return track that is sent to a set up audio effects track will play back this signal chain including the effect on the receiving audio effects track. Here I hear only track 3, not the 2nd track with drums as these aren't sent to return 3:


Therefore it's highly likely your setup includes something else affecting your outcome. Follow the signals.

[Stromkraft]

Again,
look at the behavior of the solo and the mute knobs of the return tracks and the normal tracks, there is a big different. When you solo a normal track, in all other tracks the mute knob changed to grey!!! If you solo a return track, the mute knob of all other return tracks, with Audio to your group channel, will not change to grey, they will stay yellow, that means, they are not muted, they are audible.

Unless I'm missing some detail that must nevertheless be seen as being outside of the scope of this discussion, this is just not how Live works as far as I can tell. Soloing this return track plays back that part of the signal chain, it does not solo the return track, it solos the receiving audio track as that is where the signal is routed. All other tracks are muted including normal tracks.

While I can't rule out that a more complex setup won't yield a somewhat different outcome this would not be part of the basic functionality of Live routing. Please suggest an experiment that shows your points.

[silversurfer60]

solo a normal track. all other tracks are muted.



solo a return track, when audio to the group return track is choosen in all return tracks. This is your case, one return is solo, but the others are not muted, so you can hear them all in the return group track.




solo a return track, when audio to the group return track is choosen only in one return track. Now the other return tracks are muted, but its pointless, because the are not routed to your return group track. Similar to the image of STROMKRAFT.

Look at the behavior of the mute and solo knobs.

[Stromkraft]

That's obvious.
But instead, I hear every track in the project.

Therefore it's highly likely your setup includes something else affecting your outcome. Follow the signals.

I realized that one possibility is that you have set the Return Group track to get the audio from some other track, like the master or somewhere else where the other tracks can be heard and that you've forgotten about it. In this case the audio in the return group track would be both from any tracks sending audio to it as well as the track it's set up to get audio from as a source.

This might not be the case for you but I find it worth mentioning as one possible cause. There are some aspects of the possibility of sending audio to tracks as well as setting up getting audio from a source, that can make the audio routing and its effects somewhat unexpected.