Drum Racks Kick Drum Laying issue.

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seigethebeast
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Drum Racks Kick Drum Laying issue.

Post by seigethebeast » Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:12 pm

Hello guys,

Now Im not sure if this is considered phase cancellation or what, but the problem Im having is when Im layering kick drums on pad one. Lets say I have 4 kicks grouped together on pad 1. Now lets say I draw a 4 on the floor pattern 1 kick each beat the very first kick sounds totally different soon as I start and then the 2 kick on out has a different sound. So like the first kick on the first beat has like a pop to it then beat 2,3,4 and so on and so on sounds muffled or the way I want it to sound . It also happens if Im doubling up on the pattern the first hit sound different that the next hit. I hope this is understandable. Im going to attach a video so you understand exactly what Im talking about. Listen closely.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esMMwn8 ... e=youtu.be

seigethebeast
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Re: Drum Racks Kick Drum Laying issue.

Post by seigethebeast » Sun May 01, 2016 5:17 am

Nobody??

pencilrocket
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Re: Drum Racks Kick Drum Laying issue.

Post by pencilrocket » Sun May 01, 2016 8:02 am

I can confirm the difference in your video.
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Hauke
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Re: Drum Racks Kick Drum Laying issue.

Post by Hauke » Sun May 01, 2016 5:16 pm

Maybe a compressor with a too long release time? Or is it every first beat in a loop?

Shift Gorden
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Re: Drum Racks Kick Drum Laying issue.

Post by Shift Gorden » Mon May 02, 2016 4:01 pm

Hauke wrote:Maybe a compressor with a too long release time? Or is it every first beat in a loop?
I was wondering that, too - but it seems to happen on every first beat no matter if the whole loop or just a couple of beats are played.

Sounds like the other beats are missing part of the layer as they loose the higher frequencies.

(There's no funky auto filter or automation going on, right?)

mholloway
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Re: Drum Racks Kick Drum Laying issue.

Post by mholloway » Mon May 02, 2016 5:09 pm

The idea with Layering Kicks isn't that you just take a bunch of kicks and play them simultaneously and hope it all goes well. It won't, as you're discovering. This isn't Drum Racks fault. You have to appropriately EQ each kick so they complement each other. Do some research online, there's plenty of video content on youtube about exactly this process.

-M
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

Hauke
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Re: Drum Racks Kick Drum Laying issue.

Post by Hauke » Mon May 02, 2016 5:46 pm

mholloway wrote:The idea with Layering Kicks isn't that you just take a bunch of kicks and play them simultaneously and hope it all goes well. It won't, as you're discovering. This isn't Drum Racks fault. You have to appropriately EQ each kick so they complement each other. Do some research online, there's plenty of video content on youtube about exactly this process.

-M
Even when you just layer a bunch of kicks without processing, it should always sound the same when you trigger them.


What happens when you make a one bar loop with just one note?

Shift Gorden
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Re: Drum Racks Kick Drum Laying issue.

Post by Shift Gorden » Mon May 02, 2016 7:03 pm

Hauke wrote:
mholloway wrote:The idea with Layering Kicks isn't that you just take a bunch of kicks and play them simultaneously and hope it all goes well. It won't, as you're discovering. This isn't Drum Racks fault. You have to appropriately EQ each kick so they complement each other. Do some research online, there's plenty of video content on youtube about exactly this process.

-M
Even when you just layer a bunch of kicks without processing, it should always sound the same when you trigger them.


What happens when you make a one bar loop with just one note?
Yeah, that's what I thought, too. Regardless of layering technique, I can't see why the first kick sounds different from the rest.

Love the idea about a one note loop.

beats me
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Re: Drum Racks Kick Drum Laying issue.

Post by beats me » Mon May 02, 2016 7:11 pm

mholloway wrote:The idea with Layering Kicks isn't that you just take a bunch of kicks and play them simultaneously and hope it all goes well. It won't, as you're discovering. This isn't Drum Racks fault. You have to appropriately EQ each kick so they complement each other. Do some research online, there's plenty of video content on youtube about exactly this process.

-M

Alternatively you can get plugins like Kick 2 or Big Kick and that will take a lot of the guess work out of it. They also make good learning tools if you decide you want to do it from scratch.

pencilrocket
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Re: Drum Racks Kick Drum Laying issue.

Post by pencilrocket » Tue May 03, 2016 12:11 am

mholloway wrote:The idea with Layering Kicks isn't that you just take a bunch of kicks and play them simultaneously and hope it all goes well. It won't, as you're discovering. This isn't Drum Racks fault. You have to appropriately EQ each kick so they complement each other. Do some research online, there's plenty of video content on youtube about exactly this process.

-M
what??? :lol:
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Stromkraft
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Re: Drum Racks Kick Drum Laying issue.

Post by Stromkraft » Tue May 03, 2016 9:49 am

seigethebeast wrote:Hello guys,

Now Im not sure if this is considered phase cancellation or what, but the problem Im having is when Im layering kick drums on pad one. Lets say I have 4 kicks grouped together on pad 1. Now lets say I draw a 4 on the floor pattern 1 kick each beat the very first kick sounds totally different soon as I start and then the 2 kick on out has a different sound. So like the first kick on the first beat has like a pop to it then beat 2,3,4 and so on and so on sounds muffled or the way I want it to sound . It also happens if Im doubling up on the pattern the first hit sound different that the next hit. I hope this is understandable. Im going to attach a video so you understand exactly what Im talking about. Listen closely.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esMMwn8 ... e=youtu.be
While one beat shouldn't be different if the MIDI is the same, generally it's a good idea to use envelopes and maybe EQ in order for the different parts to be able to shine.

Why use 4 kicks, if I may ask? 3 should be sufficient. I use 2 plus Saturation to get the sound I want. I 'm just curious on the idea behind this choice.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Tue May 03, 2016 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

pencilrocket
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Re: Drum Racks Kick Drum Laying issue.

Post by pencilrocket » Tue May 03, 2016 10:21 am

Are you guys trolling? It's obvious to me that he isn't asking production tips.
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mholloway
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Re: Drum Racks Kick Drum Laying issue.

Post by mholloway » Tue May 03, 2016 8:24 pm

I like to take two kicks and layer a nice salami or prosciutto -- or hell, both, why not -- and then use some low fat mayo and honey mustard. If you're feeling real dangerous you could try a THIRD kick in the middle but let's not get too crazy OK why not, layer that third kick and how about a wide slice o' swiss to top off your layered kick sammy, then heat that betch to sizzlin and open wide for a hot minute of chowdom.
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

Stromkraft
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Re: Drum Racks Kick Drum Laying issue.

Post by Stromkraft » Tue May 03, 2016 8:27 pm

pencilrocket wrote:It's obvious to me that he isn't asking production tips.
Sometimes you're just curious on what you're missing with how others do stuff. Just because one doesn't see the benefit of something doesn't mean one must be right. It's acceptable to assume most producers don't take interested questions as critique.
Make some music!

seigethebeast
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Re: Drum Racks Kick Drum Laying issue.

Post by seigethebeast » Sun May 15, 2016 6:43 am

Its crazy no one has been able to answer this question for me. I read someone say something about eq. I understand all of that but again I can do the same layering in Geist. No eq and every kick will sound the same. As far as how many kicks to layer everyone has their preference. I don't normally layer 4 kicks. But hey why not? I may want something EXTREME.. I may just use only 1 kick. Everyone has their techniques. My question was really figuring out why the first kick is different from the rest when layering, using Drum Racks. Hope this issue is resolved soon..

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