Cut loop from audio recording using only Push 2? Impossible?

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elgrayso
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Cut loop from audio recording using only Push 2? Impossible?

Post by elgrayso » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:04 am

It appears to be impossible, but let me know if there is a solution. Here is my process and where I run into issues:

I can play a record on my turntable (roughly the area I want to sample) and record the audio into a new clip. This step works with no problems.
I then want to use Push 2's "Clip" button to zoom in and change the "start offset" position and precisely adjust the start point of the section of audio I want to loop.
Herein lies the problem...
There is no way to precisely adjust the start point (aka "start offset") of your loop.

The start point is quantized, meaning that it jumps forward and backward in large chunk increments. By default it jumps by one bar, but you can hold shift and it will jump by quarter-bar increments. The irony is that we haven't precisely looped our sample yet, so the "one bar" quantized chunks are completely arbitrary.

Anyone who has a background in sampling understands the importance of make a precise loop. The Ableton 9.7 update boasted better features for sampling on Push 2, so I am hoping they have added the ability to precisely loop and I just am unaware of the feature. Any ideas? Is it impossible?

Note: This is the basic audio clip mode I am working in. It is possible to accurately change the start point of the audio in the Simpler, but I am wanting to edit normal ableton audio clip loops. I also realize that it it is possible to zoom in and precisely edit the start point of the clip using the keyboard and mouse, but I am wanting to develop a workflow that stays completely on the Push 2 and not rely on the computer screen (which is how Push 2 is marketed in the Ableton videos).

markwphoto
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Re: Cut loop from audio recording using only Push 2? Impossible?

Post by markwphoto » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:07 am

Push the Convert button and then the option for Simpler. This will allow you to cut and chop the clip in finer increments.

Tarekith
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Re: Cut loop from audio recording using only Push 2? Impossible?

Post by Tarekith » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:29 am

He already said that in his initial post.

markwphoto
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Re: Cut loop from audio recording using only Push 2? Impossible?

Post by markwphoto » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:52 pm

Tarekith wrote:He already said that in his initial post.
The OP stated that he/she recorded a new clip and wanted to use the the "Clip button" to zoom in/change the start offset...

In Clip mode you can only change the start of the warped clip in bar increments or whatever your resolution is set to. It will not do fine increments in this mode.

As stated he/she said they can do this in "Simpler on the computer but using the keyboard and mouse."

It doesn't appear that OP has used the Convert button on Push 2 to change the audio clip to a Simpler device to refine/chop/cut/crop the loop/audio clip, hence my reply! If he/she uses the convert button then you will not need the computer mouse and keyboard to refine the audio clip, it can all be done directly from Push 2.
Last edited by markwphoto on Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

saintjoe
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Re: Cut loop from audio recording using only Push 2? Impossible?

Post by saintjoe » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:02 pm

I've personally been asking for better audio editing at the clip level for years as well. I hope to see some improvement in this area soon. It does kind of break the workflow of working with samples directly from Push, convert to simpler is cool, but sometimes you don't even want to do that for what you're working on or you want to handle basic audio editing before doing so.
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markwphoto
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Re: Cut loop from audio recording using only Push 2? Impossible?

Post by markwphoto » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:16 pm

saintjoe wrote:I've personally been asking for better audio editing at the clip level for years as well. I hope to see some improvement in this area soon. It does kind of break the workflow of working with samples directly from Push, convert to simpler is cool, but sometimes you don't even want to do that for what you're working on or you want to handle basic audio editing before doing so.
I totally get what you're saying and it would be nice if Live had easier audio editing without converting to Simpler. I don't know if this will ever happen I believe for this reason... If you think about Live in its basic form it is a player for clips that are audio or midi. If Simpler was built into every audio clip slot I'm sure it would use a lot more system resources.

I also use Reason and even it requires some type of Sampler device to refine the audio before you could use it the way you wanted. I don't see that going away anytime soon but I can say working with samples in Live with Push 2 is a lot easier than Reason.

saintjoe
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Re: Cut loop from audio recording using only Push 2? Impossible?

Post by saintjoe » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:25 pm

markwphoto wrote:
saintjoe wrote:I've personally been asking for better audio editing at the clip level for years as well. I hope to see some improvement in this area soon. It does kind of break the workflow of working with samples directly from Push, convert to simpler is cool, but sometimes you don't even want to do that for what you're working on or you want to handle basic audio editing before doing so.
I totally get what you're saying and it would be nice if Live had easier audio editing without converting to Simpler. I don't know if this will ever happen I believe for this reason... If you think about Live in its basic form it is a player for clips that are audio or midi. If Simpler was built into every audio clip slot I'm sure it would use a lot more system resources.

I also use Reason and even it requires some type of Sampler device to refine the audio before you could use it the way you wanted. I don't see that going away anytime soon but I can say working with samples in Live with Push 2 is a lot easier than Reason.
I don't think you need simpler (or a sampler) for basic audio editing though, just add the functions to the audio track. Things like being able to adjust start/end of audio, fade, crop, etc.

Sometimes you just want to capture audio and turn it into a clip on an audio track, or just edit the audio, not turn it into an instrument.

I'm still holding on to hope that it comes in the near future :)
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elgrayso
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Re: Cut loop from audio recording using only Push 2? Impossible?

Post by elgrayso » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:37 am

I imagine it will be a feature eventually. I mean, I'm recording audio, zooming in, adjusting the start-point all on my Push 2 without even looking at the computer. It's so close to perfect that it's frustrating. It's just that damn start-point shifts in large increments no matter how zoomed-in I am.
Keep in mind that this isn't adding a new feature to the Ableton software, it's just applying Ableton's (desktop) logic to the Push. Meaning that in ableton (desktop), the further you zoom in, the finer resolution you have in adjusting the start-point and you can precisely set where the loop starts. All I'm wanting is for that same option to be applied to Push; you zoom in and can make a more precise adjustment.
They can add this by making the user press "shift+select" to enable this "fine-tune" mode, I'm open to whatever, but it needs to be a feature. The sampler/controllers they are competing with (MPC, Maschine, etc) let you adjust exactly where the samples start; it's part of the core foundation of the looping process and it's crazy that its still not possible to adjust on Push 2.


markwphoto, yes you can import into Simpler and adjust, but I am wanting to edit the basic audio clip loops. Abletons audio clip loops are a huge part of my workflow, as well as most users that work with loops. Putting all my loops into a specific devices nested inside racks just makes everything super inefficient and confusing when arranging and sequencing. I like the Simpler for making a single instrument of "chops", but not for arranging my loops.

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Re: Cut loop from audio recording using only Push 2? Impossible?

Post by saintjoe » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:52 am

Totally agree, I'm capturing audio loops a majority of the time as well, which is why this has also been such a huge request for me. I'm doing this more than chopping up samples or turning them into instruments, etc.

Fixed length has really helped me get around it for my workflow but I still find myself wanting basic audio editing of my audio clips without having to convert all the time.
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elgrayso
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Re: Cut loop from audio recording using only Push 2? Impossible?

Post by elgrayso » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:57 am

saintjoe, have you talked to anyone at Ableton about this or got any sense that they see the value of these things? I know you have closer connections to a lot of companies than most folks

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Re: Cut loop from audio recording using only Push 2? Impossible?

Post by saintjoe » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:03 am

Like I said, I've been pushing for this for a while. Anytime I have the ear of someone who will listen, I let it be known lol. As far as what will happen, I can't say. But just looking at
what they've been doing with Push/Simpler, I can only hope that true audio editing will happen in the future. It seems like a truly logical step imo.
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mrekim
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Re: Cut loop from audio recording using only Push 2? Impossible?

Post by mrekim » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:18 pm

Isn't nudging the starting position they way to do this? Iirc, There is a tutorial video from Ableton themselves where they do exactly this (recording from vinyl and looping it)

elgrayso
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Re: Cut loop from audio recording using only Push 2? Impossible?

Post by elgrayso » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:24 pm

mrekim, can you link the video that shows this?

Edit: I found this one, but it shows him adjusting the start point in the Simpler (and as discussed above, we dont want to put our loops in the simpler). Is your "nudge" video different?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjQeQgKURWY

mrekim
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Re: Cut loop from audio recording using only Push 2? Impossible?

Post by mrekim » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:36 pm

elgrayso wrote:mrekim, can you link the video that shows this?

Edit: I found this one, but it shows him adjusting the start point in the Simpler (and as discussed above, we dont want to put our loops in the simpler). Is your "nudge" video different?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjQeQgKURWY
I totally missed the point that you don't want to use simpler. Sorry :-/

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Re: Cut loop from audio recording using only Push 2? Impossible?

Post by AAdel » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:49 pm

My solution will be a delay and adjust until it's precisely in its place.
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