Link and Sync, large latency monitoring through Live

[Johnny Vulcan]

I keep hearing about how great Link is working out for people, but I'm definitely not having the same experience. Take the example where a loop is playing in Live, and an iPad app is running something on it's own sequencer (ie Elastic Drums, DM1 etc): In a zero latency, direct-monitoring situation, I feel like the sync between Live and an iPad app is *usually* acceptable, though not perfect. Looking at a recorded file in this scenario shows that there is a small, but workable amount of processing latency on the iPad side. However, if I monitor through Live, the latency becomes unacceptable. Because using Link disables use of the midi sync offset in preferences for the Linked app, what option do we have to tighten up the timing, if any?

As it stands there's no place for Link in my studio setup, as convenient as it would be. Whoever is running multiple sequencers successfully with Link, monitoring through Live, and still getting spot-on timing, please share your secret! Thanks.

[Stromkraft]

Because using Link disables use of the midi sync offset in preferences for the Linked app

How stupid is that?

what option do we have to tighten up the timing, if any?

You actually don't say which sample buffer you're running on your audio interface. So what is it?

What about using External Instrument? Does that work?

Whoever is running multiple sequencers successfully with Link, monitoring through Live, and still getting spot-on timing, please share your secret! Thanks.

I haven't used link yet so too early to tell.

[Johnny Vulcan]

Because using Link disables use of the midi sync offset in preferences for the Linked app

How stupid is that?

Well - I get that, since Link isn't using midi sync by definition, it makes sense that the midi sync port would not be effective. But a Link-specific sync offset preference would be optimal.

I've tested using both 128 and 256 buffer sizes. I've been through so many iterations of buffer sizes, external instrument device, no external instrument device, track delay offsets, with no luck. Monitoring a linked app through Live results in a delay that I just can't seem to compensate. If I were rocking an external mixer this wouldn't be an issue. But I'm not.

[Stromkraft]

Because using Link disables use of the midi sync offset in preferences for the Linked app

How stupid is that?

Well - I get that, since Link isn't using midi sync by definition, it makes sense that the midi sync port would not be effective. But a Link-specific sync offset preference would be optimal.

I've tested using both 128 and 256 buffer sizes. I've been through so many iterations of buffer sizes, external instrument device, no external instrument device, track delay offsets, with no luck. Monitoring a linked app through Live results in a delay that I just can't seem to compensate. If I were rocking an external mixer this wouldn't be an issue. But I'm not. :?

Can you suggest a free link equipped app, that works with iPhone I can make some tests with myself? I'm trying with Wej, but can't get it downloaded at the moment.

[yur2die4]

I just looked at the list and the only free midi-related iPhone apps are ones that sync midi clock. They do not send notes. Midi link sync. And link to midi. They are handy little apps for synchronizing hardware from across the room though

There are a few audio apps that are free which support Link. Figure and Auxy at least. But that would only test delayed audio input, not delayed midi input.

[Stromkraft]

I just looked at the list and the only free midi-related iPhone apps are ones that sync midi clock. They do not send notes. Midi link sync. And link to midi. They are handy little apps for synchronizing hardware from across the room though :D

There are a few audio apps that are free which support Link. Figure and Auxy at least. But that would only test delayed audio input, not delayed midi input.

OK, thanks. Is there any app of those I just have to have on my iPhone 5s though?

Why, oh why, doesn't NanoStudio have Link?

[yur2die4]

I have a 5s.

One of the link with midi clock ones can be handy for wirelessly syncing a keyboard from across the room. It is neat how I can play rhythms off my $200 Yamaha keyboard and have them synced to Live. Probably not a serious application, but it works very well.

Figure you can probably pass on. I like it, but if you're looking from the perspective of utility, it is very limited.

Auxy is a love-hate relationship for me. What you might like about Auxy is that it has midi export. It just does not have live midi output. A lot of the midi editing features are sort of limited or hidden. It is intended to be simple. It frustrates me that there is no 'background audio', so I am forced to only have it running constantly as the primary app. If you have a friend who also has Auxy, you can already sync and jam (Auxy uses launching of midi sequences with timing similar to Live's clip launch).

There is also LP-5 which is a clip launching app that can host IAA fx devices and launches clips. It isn't really a necessary app, I rarely use it.
MoBeat is similar to Launchpad, which I think is free and has had a Lot of updates lately, including Link.

Paid apps:
MoDrum is one which I open on a regular basis. But it's nothing special, just handy when I need a beat.
BassLine is a pseudo 303 which I generally open alongside modrum. It is my go-to when I want that 303 vibe in a Link jam session.
Korg's iElectribe is one I sometimes open for Link jamming. It is essentially the original electribe (if you can get your hands on a nanoKontrol2 you already have a controller for it !)

Beyond those, I mostly open things on iPad.
DM1's Link adoption was a promising idea but it doesn't work properly.

tl;dr
Auxy maybe (only if it is currently free)

[Johnny Vulcan]

To be clear, the issue I'm trying to solve at the moment is delayed audio, i.e Live and an app are both playing back from their own sequencers, no midi being sent, and the app is being monitored through Live. Live and the app are synced via Link.

[Hektagon1]

Hi Johnny,
I have also experienced this kind of issues with the audio timing. I used some Iphone apss like Seekbeats and Elastic Drums and they all have the same problem, no matter how low I set the buffer size I seem to keep having issues with the synch. Not to mention if you stop the iphone app playback and start again (it throws everything off) You could try compensating using the Audio track delay In Ableton in order to realign the audio.
I have used link a few times, but so far I have not been able to get a tight enough audio synch (specially obvious when using an Ios drum machine and extra drum layers in Ableton with severe kick drum phasing).
I think it might have to do with the audio interface.

[Stromkraft]

I keep hearing about how great Link is working out for people, but I'm definitely not having the same experience.

Did you see this:

9.7.1b4 Release Notes

"Link usage is now only possible with supported audio drivers. If Direct X/MME is in use, Link will be automatically disabled"

This might not apply for you, but it's relevant info.

[smp88]

Having the exact same issue with Funkbox on iOS into a sapphire 18i8 synced over Link. Audio samples start a 32nd note off the 1 - any ideas how to resolve?