GUI corruption w/Matrox P650 and Live 4 & 5

cebec · Post by **cebec** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:09 pm

Using Reaktor 4 and/or 5 in Live 4 or 5b as a plug-in FX or as a VSTi causes significant graphical 'tearing' when the plug-in window is moved a few times.

I believe this is a Reaktor issue since I don't have this problem with any other plug-in but it could be partly dependent on some Live behavior, as well.

Simply load Reaktor 4 or 5 into Live 4 or 5b and then an ensemble. Then move the plug-in window around the screen. You'll notice that the plug-in window begins to disintegrate and distort, taking on artifacts of the Live GUI.

I'm using Windows XP Pro SP 2a, a Matrox P650 w/latest drivers, Live 4.14, 5b17, Reaktor 5.009, and an E-MU1820m. Again, no other plug-in exhibits this behavior. I have posted this report to the NI forums, as well, but haven't received any replies/corroboration since.

Thanks!

cebec · Post by **cebec** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:05 pm

confirmed that this GUI distortion also occurs with other plug-ins. reducing the Matrox P650 Hardware Acceleration one notch is the only workaround. The problem does, indeed, seem to be in the interaction between Live and the Matrox P650, and not solely Reaktor.

Dandruff · Post by **Dandruff** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:26 am

Confirmed here too (Live 5.0.1 Demo with all VSTs, other windows and also its window itself)! I'm also using a Matrox P650. Don't have these problems with other hosts. Happens only with Live!

Will start a new thread at the Matrox forums today: http://forum.matrox.com/mga/viewtopic.php?t=16970

Dandruff · Post by **Dandruff** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:23 am

now confirmed by matrox. hope they can solve the problem with a driver update ...

cebec · Post by **cebec** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:54 pm

Awesome, thanks Dandruff... I, too, have found Matrox Tech. Support exceedingly helpful and rapid in their responses...
I just wonder, though, why the problem seems to be confined to the Ableton Live/Matrox P650/750 combination...

Dandruff · Post by **Dandruff** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:05 pm

Yeah lets hope this problem can be solved by Matrox. It's a bit strange that Live is the only application on my system with this behaviour!

Post by **Alex** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:18 pm

Hi Dandruff,

It's a bit strange that Live is the only application on my system with this behavior!

The view framework of Live for the Window platform is based on DirectDraw, which is used mostly for games. Many desktop applications are based on the Windows GDI. This alone can make a difference.
Of course it is also possible that we make something wrong but then again you could ask, why only with the Matrox card.

So if Matrox already confirmed this one there are good chances that it will be fixed soon.

regards,
Alex

cebec · Post by **cebec** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:22 pm

aha! DirectDraw... that's the sort of info./clue I've been looking for...
thanks!

Dandruff · Post by **Dandruff** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:24 pm

Alex wrote:Hi Dandruff,

It's a bit strange that Live is the only application on my system with this behavior!
The view framework of Live for the Window platform is based on DirectDraw, which is used mostly for games. Many desktop applications are based on the Windows GDI. This alone can make a difference.

alright. thanks for this info! i'll forward that to matrox ...

Dandruff · Post by **Dandruff** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:33 pm

@Alex: one more question: does Live needs directx9-functions/driver? all i know is, that these matrox-cards/driver don't support directx9-stuff!

Post by **Alex** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:41 pm

Hi Dandruff,

no, Live's requirements for DirectDraw are very low. That means also cards that are several years old should still work. The focus on the latest DirectDraw version is based on these 3-D gaming stuff which is not used from Live.

regards,
Alex

Dandruff · Post by **Dandruff** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:42 pm

alright. thank you again!

Dandruff · Post by **Dandruff** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:17 pm

@Alex: maybe another useful information:

when running the directdraw-test in microsoft's directx-diagnostics (dxdiag.exe) while running LIVE at the same time, LIVE crashes at the fullscreen-test (with the white moving square). in the background an error-message pops up:
_____________________________________________________________________________
Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library
_____________________________________________________________________________

Runtime Error!

Program: C:\Programme\Ableton\Live\Program\Live 5.0.1.exe

abnormal program termination
_____________________________________________________________________________

after the test is done, the message-box (and LIVE) gets closed automatically.

when clicking "OK" in this message-box, another error-message pops up:
_____________________________________________________________________________
Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library
_____________________________________________________________________________

Runtime Error!

Program: C:\Programme\Ableton\Live\Program\Live 5.0.1.exe

This application has requested the runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.
Please contact the application's support team for more information.
_____________________________________________________________________________

cebec · Post by **cebec** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:07 am

i found that the corruption no longer occurs when I disable DirectDraw in the DirectX diagnostics and put the Hardware acceleration in the Troubleshoot tab at 'max'

Dandruff · Post by **Dandruff** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:15 am

yeah -> i think that's because directdraw disables the whole directdraw-acceleration. the hardware-acceleration (reduced by one notch) only disables two functions (cursor and bitmap acceleration).

so i think it would be better to let directdraw enabled and only reduce the hardware-acceleration by one notch ...