Freeze clips (rather than the entire track)
Freeze clips (rather than the entire track)
I often freeze a track to render a single clip to audio. As my set grows larger, there are more and more midi clips on a given track. This prolongs my time to render significantly. So much so that I just create an audio track and resample. This is inconvenient. Please make a feature to render a single midi clip to audio. I think you could simply extend the freeze function to a single clip, apply the same colour scheme to denote that the clip is frozen, and there ya go.
Re: Freeze clips (rather than the entire track)
Combining frozen and unfrozen parts on the same arrangement track would be problematic because of the conflicts between deactivated and activated effect plugins (the state of something being frozen vs. the state of the chain being calculated in realtime). An alternative, additional "quick render on the fly" function would be very cool, just not to be tangled up with the freezing functionalitySiika wrote:I think you could simply extend the freeze function to a single clip, apply the same colour scheme to denote that the clip is frozen, and there ya go.
A quick render function like this would let you select a clip and, for example, holding a key modifier drag that selection somewhere else, rendering that selection on the fly when releasing the drag. Another way to do this (one I've been thinking about before, a design that could have nice additional touches added to it) is having a dedicated "quick render slot/zone/holder" neatly in the GUI somewhere. Basically, you could have functions like "render clip into quick holder", "render time selection into quick holder", and so on, in the relevant context menus. If you'd like to "freeze" a certain clip in the arrangement, to be used somewhere else, you could just right click that clip and render it into that quick render slot. Then you would have a visual cue there, that you have material stashed in the holder , and you could drag it from there where ever you'd like. "Render to clipboard" -- another cool thing to have -- would be somewhat similar, but instead of losing that content when copying something else during a routine edit, the holder content would be more persistent.
Re: Freeze clips (rather than the entire track)
If by "this" you mean what I wrote in that quote, then hmm, no I don't think they do that . If that really is what you mean, you are perhaps confusing the above with some other functionality.antic604 wrote:Bitwig and Reaper deal with this just fine, so it's more like a challenge than an impossibilityNokatus wrote:Combining frozen and unfrozen parts on the same arrangement track would be problematic because of the conflicts between deactivated and activated effect plugins (the state of something being frozen vs. the state of the chain being calculated in realtime). An alternative, additional "quick render on the fly" function would be very cool, just not to be tangled up with the freezing functionality
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Re: Freeze clips (rather than the entire track)
If this is true why would you freeze clips if there are no resources saved? What's the gain?antic604 wrote:[
Bitwig and Reaper deal with this just fine, so it's more like a challenge than an impossibility :)
Make some music!
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Re: Freeze clips (rather than the entire track)
@antic604, I'm not following. As I understood the suggestion it's about freezing everything in a few clips rather than all clips in a track.
While freezing just the instruments would be very welcome I think that's a different suggestion? I assume I missed something, so please clarify.
While freezing just the instruments would be very welcome I think that's a different suggestion? I assume I missed something, so please clarify.
Make some music!
Re: Freeze clips (rather than the entire track)
Thanks for taking the time to demonstrate that, it really is quite cool and I wasn't aware of this functionality . I'm left wondering if it's indeed possible to switch devices on the fly like that in Reaper as well -- that's the one I have quite a bit of experience with, and I haven't bumped into a feature like this.antic604 wrote:So in this particular case, when running the track, FM-4 and 5 nested FX get dynamically replaced by audio sample, so they don't consume CPU cycles and they're turned back on as soon as MIDI shows up.
There are some things that still make it problematic, though, as I was thinking of cases where the effects following the instrument (or the instrument itself) produce a tail/release beyond the MIDI clip boundaries. So if you have multiple subsequent clips of MIDI data, side by side, and you want to freeze just one in the middle, on the fly, the freeze function needs to account for the tail section that doesn't actually overlap the timespan of the actual clip. This can be solved elegantly though, and probably already is.
I agree it's very cool. I'm using the word "problematic" in the sense of "non-trivial." As in, it poses actual problem cases to solve, and can also be challenging depending on the underlying architecture, so that it's not merely a straightforward incremental change to an existing feature (for example, in Live one track cannot host both MIDI and audio data, and starting to solve for a freeze function that activates and deactivates devices on the fly also needs a different underlying track/routing design to begin with). Naturally I'm not implying that it's at all impossible . If something's impossible, as in requests that would need DSP that has data from the future (that does happen), haha, then that's the appropriate word.antic604 wrote:So yes, it's possible to combine "frozen and unfrozen parts on the same arrangement track" and it's not "problematic". Actually it's quite amazing
Cheers!
Re: Freeze clips (rather than the entire track)
And oh, that is so freezingly cool it approaches absolute zeroantic604 wrote:BTW, this is also available in Bitwig - I can grab the clip, drag it with a modifier (I think it's Alt, not 100% sure) further down the same track or to a completely different track and the instrument (+nested FX) will bo bounced to audio.
Badum tshh
Re: Freeze clips (rather than the entire track)
Hehe, yes I'm of course aware of actual look ahead techniques, but that's (obviously) not a request that requires physically seeing into the future, in the impossible senseantic604 wrote:Well, actually - Bitwig has an aptly called Time Shift device that can delay your signal or move it forward in time (by delaying everything else). Really clever and useful (eg. to do a look-ahead compressor):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQfSwv_bcSE
Re: Freeze clips (rather than the entire track)
That's very cool and also a technique I use in Live using Max based routing (and perfectly possible, so not what I was talking about -- but cool).antic604 wrote:Yes, but that was just a typical use case.
You can for example send the sound to Reverb, but then use Time Shift to delay the actual sound source so you're reverb will sound before the signal it responds to.
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Re: Freeze clips (rather than the entire track)
Yeah… Though I think of this as "freeze in place" (like the original "Bounce in place"). At the moment Live tracks are either MIDI or audio, so it's not a trivial change that is requested then, coming to think of it.Stromkraft wrote:@antic604, I'm not following. As I understood the suggestion it's about freezing everything in a few clips rather than all clips in a track.
While freezing just the instruments would be very welcome I think that's a different suggestion? I assume I missed something, so please clarify.
I do think this could be a very useful feature indeed.
Make some music!
Re: Freeze clips (rather than the entire track)
Wowza, back a year later. @Antic604, you get me. @Stromkraft, I agree that this feature is at odds with the current nature of Live's audio and midi tracks. The Bounce clip to audio context menu option sounds like a suitable solution. I am, however, intrigued by the possibility of having one track capable of handling midi and audio like antic showed us was possible in Bitwig and Reaper.
I hope this feature gets pushed.
Cheers!
I hope this feature gets pushed.
Cheers!
Re: Freeze clips (rather than the entire track)
Well it could be fairly easy,
Right click on clip, fast render to new track.
But it just doesn't exists right now, or does it?
Right click on clip, fast render to new track.
But it just doesn't exists right now, or does it?
Re: Freeze clips (rather than the entire track)
You can add a new audio track, set it's input to "Resampling", arm that track, solo the source track(s) and hit record.
I believe there's M4L device that does all of that for you:
https://maxforlive.com/library/device/4 ... e-in-place
Re: Freeze clips (rather than the entire track)
Awesome find!antic604 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:25 amYou can add a new audio track, set it's input to "Resampling", arm that track, solo the source track(s) and hit record.
I believe there's M4L device that does all of that for you:
https://maxforlive.com/library/device/4 ... e-in-place
Thnx