Bouncing Audio
-
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:52 am
Bouncing Audio
Got a deadline so this is driving me crazy...
I have a project and when I export out of the master the whole track is in time no issues. I'm supposed to send the stems to the label and when I render individual tracks to create the stems, they come out all out of time. It sounds like a train wreck. I've done this before.. rendered individual tracks to audio (for stem purposes), save them to a folder, re-open them drag and drop them into another ableton session and the stems represent the full track (all in time, no issues).
Anyone got any feedback why they think all this audio is bouncing out of time?
I have a project and when I export out of the master the whole track is in time no issues. I'm supposed to send the stems to the label and when I render individual tracks to create the stems, they come out all out of time. It sounds like a train wreck. I've done this before.. rendered individual tracks to audio (for stem purposes), save them to a folder, re-open them drag and drop them into another ableton session and the stems represent the full track (all in time, no issues).
Anyone got any feedback why they think all this audio is bouncing out of time?
-
- Posts: 7033
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Bouncing Audio
Are you using Track Delay in any tracks? That is not maintained when exporting.birdhouse19 wrote:Got a deadline so this is driving me crazy...
I have a project and when I export out of the master the whole track is in time no issues. I'm supposed to send the stems to the label and when I render individual tracks to create the stems, they come out all out of time. It sounds like a train wreck. I've done this before.. rendered individual tracks to audio (for stem purposes), save them to a folder, re-open them drag and drop them into another ableton session and the stems represent the full track (all in time, no issues).
Anyone got any feedback why they think all this audio is bouncing out of time?
Make some music!
Re: Bouncing Audio
Is Ableton warping the individual stems upon importing them? That got me a few times. You can turn off "Auto-Warp Long Samples" from the preferences menu.
-
- Posts: 7033
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Bouncing Audio
That's actually an even more important, centrally important, detail. As the new set likely have the same tempo as the original it shouldn't be a problem if one defaults to one of the "neutral" warp modes that should remain sounding the same provided the tempo isn't changed. However, as Live is not great getting the actual source tempo right, especially without an accompanying ASD file, re-importing could apply small tempo change.Gregwaah wrote:Is Ableton warping the individual stems upon importing them? That got me a few times. You can turn off "Auto-Warp Long Samples" from the preferences menu.
Make some music!
Re: Bouncing Audio
Warped files and wrong clip starting times are usually the two issues throwing off timing on (re)-importing stems. These two things are something that Live can mess up sometimes, no matter what settings you have. So make sure that each of the stem clips has Warp off and that the clip Start Markers are all really at the beginning of each clip.
-
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:52 am
Re: Bouncing Audio
Bro what a lifesaver, 100% right!!! I turned off the "Auto-Warp Long Samples" in the preferences and bang everything in time! I know I only had this issue because someone gave me stems from their logic session screwing everything up. I'm def in business, I was freaking out because these stems are going to Armada Music! Thanks again!Gregwaah wrote:Is Ableton warping the individual stems upon importing them? That got me a few times. You can turn off "Auto-Warp Long Samples" from the preferences menu.
Re: Bouncing Audio
Are you sure about this? (just verifying) I modify track delay frequently for some VSTs that need it. I have never noticed those tracks being out of time after bouncing them. I'll experiment tonight.Stromkraft wrote:Are you using Track Delay in any tracks? That is not maintained when exporting.
MacBook Pro (MacOS 13.0.1) i9 Processor, 32gb RAM, 4tb SSD
(STUDIO I/O) MOTU UltraLite mk5 (w/ADA8200), (LIVE I/O) Behringer X Air XR18
Ableton Live Suite 11 (Live performances), Studio One 5 (Studio Stem Creation)
(STUDIO I/O) MOTU UltraLite mk5 (w/ADA8200), (LIVE I/O) Behringer X Air XR18
Ableton Live Suite 11 (Live performances), Studio One 5 (Studio Stem Creation)
-
- Posts: 7033
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Bouncing Audio
This was true in Live 9 when I last tested a few years back. I abandoned track delays at that point.EnjoyRC wrote:Are you sure about this? (just verifying) I modify track delay frequently for some VSTs that need it. I have never noticed those tracks being out of time after bouncing them. I'll experiment tonight.Stromkraft wrote:Are you using Track Delay in any tracks? That is not maintained when exporting.
I haven't tested in Live 10, but it would be interesting to learn. This may have been improved/fixed since because I, and maybe a few others, posted bug reports to Ableton about it.
Make some music!
Re: Bouncing Audio
I wonder if it makes a difference if you export that ONE track verses exporting MASTER with all other tracks muted? Might apply the track delay when exporting MASTER...Stromkraft wrote:This was true in Live 9 when I last tested a few years back. I abandoned track delays at that point.
I haven't tested in Live 10, but it would be interesting to learn. This may have been improved/fixed since because I, and maybe a few others, posted bug reports to Ableton about it.
MacBook Pro (MacOS 13.0.1) i9 Processor, 32gb RAM, 4tb SSD
(STUDIO I/O) MOTU UltraLite mk5 (w/ADA8200), (LIVE I/O) Behringer X Air XR18
Ableton Live Suite 11 (Live performances), Studio One 5 (Studio Stem Creation)
(STUDIO I/O) MOTU UltraLite mk5 (w/ADA8200), (LIVE I/O) Behringer X Air XR18
Ableton Live Suite 11 (Live performances), Studio One 5 (Studio Stem Creation)
-
- Posts: 7033
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Bouncing Audio
Well, of course this works. That's just summing. I thought the topic was multiple track exports.EnjoyRC wrote: Might apply the track delay when exporting MASTER...
Make some music!
-
- Posts: 7033
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Bouncing Audio
Ok, got curious and made a quick test with negative track delay in the latest 10 beta. I maintain that exporting of singular tracks that have track delay om them won't have that on export. Given that track delays also adds latency and there are other ways to be "early" or "late" I sincerely feel track delays are close to worthless for music production. Maybe they have some use, but I can't see it.EnjoyRC wrote:I wonder if it makes a difference if you export that ONE track verses exporting MASTER with all other tracks muted? Might apply the track delay when exporting MASTER...Stromkraft wrote:This was true in Live 9 when I last tested a few years back. I abandoned track delays at that point.
I haven't tested in Live 10, but it would be interesting to learn. This may have been improved/fixed since because I, and maybe a few others, posted bug reports to Ableton about it.
Make some music!
Re: Bouncing Audio
This guy uses Track Delay as fast way to add "swing" to tracks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcNonCTLd2k
I guess Track Delay is post-fader. Track export is also post-fader. It would be weird if "post-fader" turn out to be not really directly post-fader, for a important operation like the final export, so it render the audio before the Track Delay, instead of creating a weird exception to the rules.
Another "evidence" is that if you add the track to a Group and export the Group then it does render the Track Delay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcNonCTLd2k
I guess Track Delay is post-fader. Track export is also post-fader. It would be weird if "post-fader" turn out to be not really directly post-fader, for a important operation like the final export, so it render the audio before the Track Delay, instead of creating a weird exception to the rules.
Another "evidence" is that if you add the track to a Group and export the Group then it does render the Track Delay
♥♥♥
-
- Posts: 7033
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Bouncing Audio
I don't really see why it would be. Track delays are like any other effect and are delay compensated. When you move tracks with negative values all other tracks are delayed. You're suggesting this happens after the fader. I think it happens first.pottering wrote: I guess Track Delay is post-fader.
If this works this is an acceptable workaround.pottering wrote: Another "evidence" is that if you add the track to a Group and export the Group then it does render the Track Delay
Make some music!
-
- Posts: 7033
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Bouncing Audio
Yep. Tested and it truly works! Great find, Pottering!Stromkraft wrote:If this works this is an acceptable workaround.pottering wrote: Another "evidence" is that if you add the track to a Group and export the Group then it does render the Track Delay
Make some music!
-
- Posts: 7033
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Bouncing Audio
If what you say was true then a delay send, set to "pre", would result in out of rhythm repeats when you change the track delay time, as this is sent pre-fader. This does not happen indicating Track Delays are adjusted earlier, likely before any device chain.Stromkraft wrote:I don't really see why it would be. Track delays are like any other effect and are delay compensated. When you move tracks with negative values all other tracks are delayed. You're suggesting this happens after the fader. I think it happens first.pottering wrote: I guess Track Delay is post-fader.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!