Machinesworking wrote: [/i]Poly AT keyboards disappeared around the time VSTi's started to take off. We are now seeing a small trickle of MPE instruments, and as a live performance instrument (at least in theory), Live would be best served if it implemented this new standard.
This is not 2004 now. This is 2018. Stop living in the past. Already before MPE there was a comeback of PolyAT controllers, as I said in 2010.
Where is this comeback of Poly AT controllers? I see pretty much zero poly AT keyboards out there, and counting drum controllers is hardly worth mentioning. There are less than a dozen controllers with Poly AT out there in 2018, certainly nothing from any of the bigger manufacturers. I have a Keith McMillon 24 key poly AT device, one of a handfull of 24note controllers that do poly AT at all, it works like shit with poly AT.
That's not me claiming this, that's the electronic music press that tend to, you know, keep an eye on the market. Even Push has PolyAT for crying out loud! Your apologetic stance and history lesson is not coherent and makes no sense. It's wishful apologies all day long.
I would not count on Push's "poly AT" to ever work with poly AT, it very obviously wasn't designed to work with poly AT, just vanilla AT from their multi instrument drum rack. Call me apologetic all you want, doesn't matter, in the end Ableton have their reasons for not having poly AT, and I can see why. In the process of trying to explain why I can see their logic behind it, you're jumping to weird conclusions. Yes, there are MPE devices out now, not too many, and no, there is not a huge resurgence or anything more than a slow trickle of devices like Push 2 that might "possibly" be used for poly AT.
Ableton choose to implement MIDI and with this took the step into becoming a DAW and being judged as a MIDI host as well. Live is now a DAW since Live 7 at least. That means MIDI support is key.
We have the controllers since many years and we have the computer power. Not adding PolyAT is silly and MPE should follow soon thereafter or at the same time.
Therein is where we differ, I agree, requesting poly AT and MPE are right up there in my mind as far as features I would like to see, but reality is I think most people are more interested in Live from a sound design perspective. The truth is if there was a poll of which DAWs had the largest percentage of users who were not classically trained musicians (know some theory, can play piano, drums or guitar etc.), Live would be near the top of that list. I'm also not a coder, so I have no idea what kind of corner Ableton have backed themselves into in terms of implementing these features. I cannot predict at all whether Ableton will ever add those features in, so I look at the half dozen DAWs that already have them.
I'm not apologizing for them, but I'm not "blaming" them as you clearly are doing. I'm using the software that works. As I mentioned you can create a Rack that does MPE for MPE devices, it's a slight PITA but it works. Blaming software companies for not having your agenda is pointless, and I'm 100% certain Ableton aren't looking at your posts and thinking "Oh crap we better implement it! Stormcraft says MIDI support is key!" Voting for poly AT and MPE support on the beta forums is about all you can realistically do. You have to understand that although Ableton are not thinking of you and other advanced MIDI controller users as their key market (otherwise they would have implemented these features years ago), they don't particularly like reading posts condemning their software development. If this was was an easy fix they would have done it. With that in mind look to what they have done, the timeframe and environment they did it in, and what direction they're going in now, if it doesn't match up with your needs then move on, or use more than one DAW. It's not that hard.
I'm not trying to be rude about this, but you're being really unrealistic. Guitar Center, or any big music retail outlet, in 2018 how many Poly AT or MPE devices are they selling or MPE? It's just KM instruments, Roli and Linn that have devices that can do poly AT or MPE, beyond really boutique devices maybe.. Because a music rag is excited about new devices doesn't mean the market jumps on them. I'm literally ending up arguing with you over this because you're acting like it's a feature that MUST exist in Live, that's simply not true. MPE wise a Rack will cover the Equator, Falcon and other MPE capable synths, it's well covered on Roli's site. So I'm not sure where you're expecting this to end up? MPE is still a niche market, period, and it can work in Live as it stands today. Offering you a reasonable explanation as to why Ableton did not implement poly AT fell on completely deaf ears, you brought up them not implementing Poly AT back in the day, but I'm living in the past? Why is it so hard to think that things happen for a reason? What is your take on why Ableton didn't implement or isn't implementing MPE and Poly AT? Serious question there. If it's because you think they are lazy or because the user base is not as interested as you are in these things, then you should move on. There are a half dozen poly AT and MPE capable DAWs out there.
I chalk it up to nerding out about it, but your unreasonable take on why Ableton skipped Poly AT and your dismissal of possible explanations reeks of internet "win" syndrome.
Arguing with people online will not solve the problem, and feels especially weird considering you're attempting this open ended attack at Ableton like it's some righteous stance, and attempts to explain the situation are making you upset. Plenty of faster developed DAWs out there, and being upset about features a DAW doesn't have is pointless.
Live 10 was recently released, Ableton haven't had Poly AT for 14 years now, MPE is not in the horizon realistically. Looking at their timeline feature wise. It's time to think about other DAWs Stormcraft, or at the very least stop posturing that your indignation is righteous, it's not.