EQ8: Serious issues with Bass. Here is the proof.

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
locojohn
Posts: 483
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:42 am
Location: riga, latvia

Re: EQ8: Serious issues with Bass. Here is the proof.

Post by locojohn » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:31 am

Andy,
ze2be wrote:Hey Andy, is that some of your code in those new saturstion/distortion fx devices?
And, perhaps, in the Wavetable too?

The Drop is my go to filter effect for production.

Andrejs
/*
  • the basic tone of life remains the same,
    and in it there are some happy melodies
    and some sad melodies
    - sekito kisen
*/

anthony-deloeuvre
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: EQ8: Serious issues with Bass. Here is the proof.

Post by anthony-deloeuvre » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:25 pm

Hi all,

I know this is an old topic, but I have some similar problems using EQ8 in low frequencies, that I don't have with a third part plugin.

When I try to cut bass with EQ8, I have some boosts/phase problem that makes my bass unpredictable. It's almost impossible for me to use it for bass and kick. I tried 4x high pass, oversampling ... My third part plugin doesn't have any problem like this, I can cut and my bass sit where it have to be.

The problem is that I really love working with stock plugins, for the view, the simplicity and the workflow.

Does anyone have an explanation ? or a cure maybe ?

Thank you very much

jlgrimes
Posts: 1206
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:55 am
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Re: EQ8: Serious issues with Bass. Here is the proof.

Post by jlgrimes » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:38 pm

anthony-deloeuvre wrote:Hi all,

I know this is an old topic, but I have some similar problems using EQ8 in low frequencies, that I don't have with a third part plugin.

When I try to cut bass with EQ8, I have some boosts/phase problem that makes my bass unpredictable. It's almost impossible for me to use it for bass and kick. I tried 4x high pass, oversampling ... My third part plugin doesn't have any problem like this, I can cut and my bass sit where it have to be.

The problem is that I really love working with stock plugins, for the view, the simplicity and the workflow.

Does anyone have an explanation ? or a cure maybe ?

Thank you very much
I know Ableton 10 lowered the cutoff to 10hz on EQ8. I wonder if they did this to fix this issue.

ze2be
Posts: 3461
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:17 am
Location: Mos Eisley

Re: EQ8: Serious issues with Bass. Here is the proof.

Post by ze2be » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:55 am

jlgrimes wrote:
anthony-deloeuvre wrote:Hi all,

I know this is an old topic, but I have some similar problems using EQ8 in low frequencies, that I don't have with a third part plugin.

When I try to cut bass with EQ8, I have some boosts/phase problem that makes my bass unpredictable. It's almost impossible for me to use it for bass and kick. I tried 4x high pass, oversampling ... My third part plugin doesn't have any problem like this, I can cut and my bass sit where it have to be.

The problem is that I really love working with stock plugins, for the view, the simplicity and the workflow.

Does anyone have an explanation ? or a cure maybe ?

Thank you very much
I know Ableton 10 lowered the cutoff to 10hz on EQ8. I wonder if they did this to fix this issue.
Yes they did.

But also remember that when using hpf, especially on bass and thick snares, there will be phaze issues with almost any eq. (A chebychev hpf algorithm is the least damaging ive found but its still not perfect) Its the nature of how an eq physically works unfortunatelly. These days I hardly use hpf on bass and snare at all. I use a low shelf rather: most mastering engineers do the same. A kick can usually (not always) take more beating as it is not consisting of a pure flat note, but rather is a pitch sweep, and so is usually far less a victim of these issues..

I try perfecting the bass on the synth instead, and this makes the bass very clear and consistent, especially in melodies. Because if you have a static eq on top of a bass melody, it will never match all the bass notes equally. So this way it can actually be more consistent and more clear and punchy without eq. Or with as little as possible.. Carefull use of saturation fx can also help making it more present in the mix without needing much eq. But its easy to overdo and kill the clear sub. Well with eqs its especially the low freq hpf that realy can mess up things. A shelf or band is less audible damaging, though they to damage the signal too.

I always keep an eye on Pro L to make sure im not loosing any rms to peak ratio due to these types of phaze issues. With a hpf on bass its comon to get issues that raise the peak by 3 db/lovering rms by 3db or sometimes more, without boosting anything, but simply by cutting. Sometimes less, but its usually drastic.

With the old eq8 hpf ending at 30hz, this would mean that as all hpf have a slope, it would end at 40hz at 4x or even higher at 1x. At 10hz now you have a chance to damage the signal less, if the bass note ends at 40hz or higher. Unfortunatly though in my experience hpf still mess with bass.. Use a shelf instead!

Pro tip ;)
? ? ? ? ?

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