Clip End kills Kontakt Playback

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The_Subject
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Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:08 am

Clip End kills Kontakt Playback

Post by The_Subject » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:42 pm

Hello everyone, wondering if I can get some input on a problem I can't get my head around.

The issue is a MIDI clip with a note in it but no VST (output to kontakt 5) is triggered to make a one-shot snare sound (Called Snare Hit). Simultaneously another more or less identical MIDI clip (called Snare Pulse) with an arpeggiator on it going (via a third track called Snare gate, that has an envelope but no notes in it) to the same Kontakt is triggered.

However, when 'Snare Hit' clip ends, its volume meter fluctuates again (with no sound coming out) but this fluctuation kills the arppegiation coming out of kontakt. The meters on Snare Pulse and Gate are still going as though my snare is still blasting away....

So, why is a midi clip in snare gate triggering two incidents - one when its triggered with sound coming out of kontakt, and one when it ends without sound but it registers as something that then kills the other channel
I've tried tweaking its envelope, its volume, its length, anything I can think of, but nothing solves the issue, just changes when it happens!

Any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated!!

The_Subject
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:08 am

Re: Clip End kills Kontakt Playback

Post by The_Subject » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:42 pm

Okay I'll rephrase:

What possible causes could there be for a single note in a single clip, set to launch by Trigger and repeat turned off, to make the meter peak twice?

Once at launch, fine.

Can anyone suggest a possible reason for it to pick up a signal a second time after launch?

ShelLuser
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Re: Clip End kills Kontakt Playback

Post by ShelLuser » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:20 pm

The_Subject wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:42 pm
What possible causes could there be for a single note in a single clip, set to launch by Trigger and repeat turned off, to make the meter peak twice?
Too many to name them all and I'm not really here to play guessing games ;)

From follow up actions to possible program changes or maybe a bad routing setup. This is not common behavior, that's for sure.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

The_Subject
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:08 am

Re: Clip End kills Kontakt Playback

Post by The_Subject » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:17 pm

Thank you for getting back to me!

No follow actions. It's a standalone track, the routing is all ins, all channels, monitor off, output to another track but the issue is within the single track.

Program changes? Not entirely sure what you mean here, can you elaborate please?

ShelLuser
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Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:26 pm
Location: Wageningen, Netherlands

Re: Clip End kills Kontakt Playback

Post by ShelLuser » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:33 am

The_Subject wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:17 pm
Program changes? Not entirely sure what you mean here, can you elaborate please?
It's a niche setting and not often used, but figured I'd mention it anyway. It sits in the same clip properties section ('notes') as the setting which determines if you want to loop your clip or not. Most often used to 'do' stuff to external controllers but....

And then there's yet another possible aspect to consider: Kontakt itself. I've only recently begun exploring the full version a few weeks ago and well.. its own sections also leave plenty of options for misbehavior.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

The_Subject
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:08 am

Re: Clip End kills Kontakt Playback

Post by The_Subject » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:31 pm

I'll investigate the program changes, but I've never knowingly used them.

I suspect it's not Kontakt exactly, as Kontakt is in a separate channel and I can see the meter in this channel going off, which triggers a problem in Kontakt. Whilst yes, inside kontakt I might be able to make a work around, I'd rather learn whats causing the issue in the first place!

Thanks for all you're help, I'll look into both those options though and come back if I need any more suggestions

Thank you

pottering
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Re: Clip End kills Kontakt Playback

Post by pottering » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:24 pm

Do you understand how MIDI notes work? Like how note on and off work?

If your "Snare Hit" sends a note off, then it should end the same note on "Snare Pulse" (since Snare Hit is routed into Snare Pulse).

ShelLuser
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Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:26 pm
Location: Wageningen, Netherlands

Re: Clip End kills Kontakt Playback

Post by ShelLuser » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:53 pm

pottering wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:24 pm
If your "Snare Hit" sends a note off, then it should end the same note on "Snare Pulse" (since Snare Hit is routed into Snare Pulse).
Very good argument, I can only comment based on theory (as in: I am not sure!) but afaik Live doesn't route control messages. So I am not too sure that those messages actually reach the track in the way you imagine. But once again: this is a somewhat educated guess.

I'm going to try and reproduce this upcoming weekend 8)
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

The_Subject
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:08 am

Re: Clip End kills Kontakt Playback

Post by The_Subject » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:53 am

pottering wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:24 pm
Do you understand how MIDI notes work? Like how note on and off work?

If your "Snare Hit" sends a note off, then it should end the same note on "Snare Pulse" (since Snare Hit is routed into Snare Pulse).
Please explain how note on and off work then?

Although if you reread my original problem, you may note that "Snare Hit" is not in fact routed through "Snare Pulse" but rather running alongside. They only meet in Kontakt.

pottering
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Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:41 am

Re: Clip End kills Kontakt Playback

Post by pottering » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:15 pm

A MIDI note is not continuous, it is a MIDI note on message at the beginning to start the note and a note off message later to stop the note.

If you send a shorter D1 note into another track that is already playing a long D1 note (like a long note driving an arpeggiator), then the shorter D1 note`s note off message will end the long D1 note.

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