Live as a............ VST Plugin.... Or a PROPER piano Roll/midi editing tools!!

Share your wishes for the future of Ableton Live
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8tySix
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:19 am

Live as a............ VST Plugin.... Or a PROPER piano Roll/midi editing tools!!

Post by 8tySix » Sat May 30, 2020 9:29 pm

Now that Reason has shown us the beginnings of what a DAW as a VST Plugin could look like (though I realize FL Studio was first to this) I think Ableton should implement this. BUT.... Allow Max to be usable. I hate that when I try to use Live in ReWire mode, Max is disabled. I use A LOT of Max devices but not being able to use them in ReWire mode is absolutely rubbish.

I also think Live has some great built-in Instruments and FX and obviously Session mode with clips is what makes Live so special. But it sucks not being able to utilize Live in a way that would tremendously make my workflow/setup complete.
For instance: I'd love to be able to load up Live inside S1 or Cubase (where the MIDI editing and tools are FARRRRR superior to anything Live has in their piano roll) as a VST Instrument and seamlessly transfer back and forth midi clips between session mode and the piano rolls of either DAW. Either create something on the fly in Live and drag the Clip directly inside S1 for further immediate editing inside S1's piano roll or vice versa. And then drag that clip back into Live if I, say, wanna use Live's session mode for some creative Clip sequencing/launching to flesh out how I want to arrange my song.
Which brings me to being able to Launch clips using my Push 2 while Live is loaded as a VST inside Cubase and record that midi sequence to separate tracks inside Cubase for further editing and sequencing.
This may sound like a lot or extremely wishful thinking, but it's something I often think about.

ORRRRRRR... I'd settle for Live FINALLY getting a PROPER overhaul to the piano roll and making MIDI editing THE priority instead of minor additions to the program that are usually useful and warranted but not necessarily something that keeps me from going back to S1 or Cubase because of the MIDI editing and tools.
I realize this post is all over the place but my mind is not organized to deliver these thoughts cohesively the way someone with a better brain might deliver them.
Please don't troll me or be rude in the comments.

jlgrimes
Posts: 1518
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:55 am
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Re: Live as a............ VST Plugin.... Or a PROPER piano Roll/midi editing tools!!

Post by jlgrimes » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:38 pm

8tySix wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 9:29 pm
Now that Reason has shown us the beginnings of what a DAW as a VST Plugin could look like (though I realize FL Studio was first to this) I think Ableton should implement this. BUT.... Allow Max to be usable. I hate that when I try to use Live in ReWire mode, Max is disabled. I use A LOT of Max devices but not being able to use them in ReWire mode is absolutely rubbish.

I also think Live has some great built-in Instruments and FX and obviously Session mode with clips is what makes Live so special. But it sucks not being able to utilize Live in a way that would tremendously make my workflow/setup complete.
For instance: I'd love to be able to load up Live inside S1 or Cubase (where the MIDI editing and tools are FARRRRR superior to anything Live has in their piano roll) as a VST Instrument and seamlessly transfer back and forth midi clips between session mode and the piano rolls of either DAW. Either create something on the fly in Live and drag the Clip directly inside S1 for further immediate editing inside S1's piano roll or vice versa. And then drag that clip back into Live if I, say, wanna use Live's session mode for some creative Clip sequencing/launching to flesh out how I want to arrange my song.
Which brings me to being able to Launch clips using my Push 2 while Live is loaded as a VST inside Cubase and record that midi sequence to separate tracks inside Cubase for further editing and sequencing.
This may sound like a lot or extremely wishful thinking, but it's something I often think about.

ORRRRRRR... I'd settle for Live FINALLY getting a PROPER overhaul to the piano roll and making MIDI editing THE priority instead of minor additions to the program that are usually useful and warranted but not necessarily something that keeps me from going back to S1 or Cubase because of the MIDI editing and tools.
I realize this post is all over the place but my mind is not organized to deliver these thoughts cohesively the way someone with a better brain might deliver them.
Please don't troll me or be rude in the comments.


I would comment and say I'd very much prefer they improved their piano roll editing (and editing in general such as Comping ARA) vs. making a VST plugin. As much as I like Studio One, I prefer Ableton for creating even though Studio One has a "better" piano Roll overall.

IMO, Ableton piano roll has a great foundation to build from. For writing drum tracks, quickly changing grid sizes, muting/folding notes, duplicating patterns, Ableton has alot of great basic functions up its sleeve.

However I think it starts to fall short for folks who create melodies/chord progressions.

Am I one of the few people who think Ableton don't really need to reinvent the wheel here but just add a few more commonly used tools here (or key commands).

1. Note split tool/command
2. Note glue tool/command
3. Scale tool
4. Chord tool
5. Some type of pattern tool (esp for velocity)


I think some of the resistance to Ableton is they are sticklers for detail. They are probably thinking how to best make the piano roll powerful without cluttering it up.

I don't see how the cut/glue tools would clutter it as most users would prefer an easy to remember/access key command over a tool anyways.

Via right clicking, scales and chords and patterns probably could be easily streamlined as well.

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