MIDI 2.0

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Tone Deft
Posts: 24155
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm

MIDI 2.0

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:55 am

https://www.midi.org/articles-old/detai ... y-exchange

- two way communication
- higher resolution, better timing
- profile configuration
- property exchange

the last two remind me of the HDMI EDID exchange. seems like it will use the same MIDI 1.0 connector.

maybe that will be the hook for Live 11, now with MIDI 2.0.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

pottering
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:41 am

Re: MIDI 2.0

Post by pottering » Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:33 pm

Didn't read the MIDI 2.0 specs (not like I could really understand it anyways), but beyond auto-config and auto-assign I'm wondering:

1- If it sends input/output/thru all through a single cable (USB?). Saving cables is good to me, I'm a cheapskate, I found cables to add up to more than I expected. Also I use laptops with few USB ports, and I hate USB dongles.

2- How easier "daisy-chaining" and "poly-chaining" synths would be with MIDI 2.0.

For example, I wonder if it would be possible to connect laptop > synth 1 > synth 2 > synth 3, in series with just 3 USB cables and just one USB port in the laptop, and yet be able to use the 3 synths to rise polyphony numbers, or switch between the 3 synths real-time, just using MIDI 2.0 to config.

jonljacobi
Posts: 549
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:36 am

Re: MIDI 2.0

Post by jonljacobi » Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:20 pm

MIDI 2.0 is transport agnostic. It can be used over legacy cables, but over any others as well. Ethernet, USB, fiber, etc.

chrisw63
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:02 pm

Re: MIDI 2.0

Post by chrisw63 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:57 pm

pottering wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:33 pm
1- If it sends input/output/thru all through a single cable (USB?). Saving cables is good to me, I'm a cheapskate, I found cables to add up to more than I expected. Also I use laptops with few USB ports, and I hate USB dongles.

2- How easier "daisy-chaining" and "poly-chaining" synths would be with MIDI 2.0.
1. In/Out/Thru is a ...direction, for lack of a better term. USB is bi-directional, of course, so it can do MIDI In and Out. But Thru is another matter. If that was supported by default, would it be on or off? Because there are many cases where you wouldn't want Thru, since it might activate something on a device downstream that you didn't set up or expect. This also is related to your next question:

2. USB doesn't really do that. Manufacturers would have to equip their controllers with two ports, a USB Device port and a USB Host port - They're very different. What they have now is USB Device ports. USB supports several modes. A Device port only needs to support One of them - the one it uses. A Host port has to support them ALL, since you never know what will be plugged into it. When you daisy-chain USB hubs, you're limited to 5 in one line. And have you tried to use controllers on USB hubs? Yeah... Between the extra coding to make the USB Host work, the cost of adding another jack and interface electronics, and the headaches support will have when something goes wrong, I seriously doubt.

What I'm hoping and praying for is that manufacturers will see this problem for themselves and everyone will change over to Ethernet. MIDI over IP (IP is the protocol Ethernet uses) is already well established and works great. Ethernet doesn't care what is where on it's cables. Even a cheap 8-port Ethernet switch would easily handle 8 devices. Ethernet cables can be any length up to thirty meters (unlike USB's 3 m limit) are not expensive, and if you want really cheap it would take you ten minutes to learn to make them yourself.

Last and not least: Yo Ableton! MIDI 2.0 is here. Please don't be last. Again. (VST3, anyone?)

TLW
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:37 am

Re: MIDI 2.0

Post by TLW » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:01 pm

chrisw63 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:57 pm
And have you tried to use controllers on USB hubs?
I do it all the time, without any problems.
chrisw63 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:57 pm
USB's 3 m
5 metres, I believe. And extendable by using powered hubs.

Any ethernet system for MIDI would need to be able to cheaply and effectively convert ethernet to USB and ethernet to 5 pin DIN to stand much of a chance of success. Not many of us would be happy to see our existing hardware rendered useless.
Live 10 Suite, 2020 27" iMac, 3.6 GHz i9, MacOS Catalina, RME UFX, assorted synths, guitars and stuff.

jonljacobi
Posts: 549
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:36 am

Re: MIDI 2.0

Post by jonljacobi » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:25 pm

There's no need to change anything over. Bluetooth, Ethernet, Thunderbolt, USB, 5-pin... Whatever is most the convenient. I'm sure adapters will be available. There's already Bluetooth to USB and 5-pin. Transport-agnostic is a good thing.

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