Live laptop setup with absolute minimum latency?

[Kevin Hamler]

So I’m setting up for live looping with a MIDI guitar and vocals, so minimal latency is crucial. I have a fairly speedy PC gaming laptop, but I read somewhere that Live is optimized for Mac. So, I’m thinking of buying a new M2 MBP. Or, a GR-55 and a dedicated external looper, in case excessive laptop latency is unavoidable.

Will this make a significant difference? The vocals have to make the the round-trip through the interface, into the laptop, and back through the interface to the PA.

Any help appreciated!

[Greenapples2019]

From my experience the majority of our latency comes from the roundtrip through the interface (about 6.5ms each way with our Clarett+). Processing MIDI and going through native plugins in a MacBook M1 seems to add about 3ms. So in total we get about 16ms of latency, equivalent to being about 6m away from a speaker. No one in the band (whether using in ears, wedges or just the PA) notices it when playing live.

The big improvement with Apple M chips is how little CPU they need; we have four vocals, bass, drum triggers, drum racks, backing tracks, DMXIS lights, delays, reverbs, M4L devices etc etc and Ableton CPU meter bobbles along at 30%. Problems don't start appearing until it hits 80%.

[Tarekith]

I wouldn’t say that Live is more optimized for Macs than PCs, although currently there are some graphics related improvements that still haven’t rolled out to Windows. Whatever route you go, factor in a good audio interface too, as that has a huge affect on latency. Personally I would recommend anything from RME if you want really low round trip latency numbers.

[Kevin Hamler]

Thanks for the replies.

I read elsewhere that the majority of latency doesn’t come from the interface, but from the computer processing. Of course, some software instruments and effects will be more processor-intensive, and therefore more likely to cause issues.

[jlgrimes]

Thanks for the replies.

I read elsewhere that the majority of latency doesn’t come from the interface, but from the computer processing. Of course, some software instruments and effects will be more processor-intensive, and therefore more likely to cause issues.

Probably a bit of both. That said with a bad interface, you won't get very far.

What are you currently using. What are your buffer settings. What is your round-trip? Where would you like to be?

[Kevin Hamler]

I don't have an audio interface yet. That's what I'm researching. I'm just looking for a low enough round-trip latency to perform live. I have a decent spec i7 laptop that I'm hoping will be good enough.

Vocals and acoustic instruments will go into the interface and into Live for processing (harmonies, delays, reverb, etc), then back through the interface to the PA. MIDI guitar, keys, and drum pads should have less latency, as it's a one-way trip from Live through the interface to the PA.

I don't want to spend big bucks on RME, etc. I'm hoping to get a decent 2-in/2-out USB interface for around $200. There are lots to choose from!

Thanks again for the help!

[jlgrimes]

I don't have an audio interface yet. That's what I'm researching. I'm just looking for a low enough round-trip latency to perform live. I have a decent spec i7 laptop that I'm hoping will be good enough.

Vocals and acoustic instruments will go into the interface and into Live for processing (harmonies, delays, reverb, etc), then back through the interface to the PA. MIDI guitar, keys, and drum pads should have less latency, as it's a one-way trip from Live through the interface to the PA.

I don't want to spend big bucks on RME, etc. I'm hoping to get a decent 2-in/2-out USB interface for around $200. There are lots to choose from!

Thanks again for the help!

If you are on a budget I recommend Focusrite Scarletts (2nd or 3rd Gen). They are perfect for low latency for a decent price. I have been able to get to 64 samples easily with them. And they are relatively cheap enough to haul around town + the smaller ones are bus powered. I think you probably could get a 4 in/4 out for about $200 if you shop around.

Scarletts are supposed to be some of the better performers when it comes to to low latency USB interfaces. Not as good as RME but from looking at an Audio Interface database alot of more expensive USB interfaces are actually worse performers than the Scarlett in terms of latency. I think the big question is if 64 samples are good enough for you. With safe mode on, my round trip is 7.83 ms and 6.83 ms with safe mode off. Me personally dont have any issues with round trips under 10 ms (matter of fact I even can manage under 15 ms pretty well), but I know it is different for different people. Im also able to use 32 samples and with that I get 6.17 and 5.17 ms respectively, but I feel a little better giving my PC some breathing room.

[Kevin Hamler]

I don't have an audio interface yet. That's what I'm researching. I'm just looking for a low enough round-trip latency to perform live. I have a decent spec i7 laptop that I'm hoping will be good enough.

Vocals and acoustic instruments will go into the interface and into Live for processing (harmonies, delays, reverb, etc), then back through the interface to the PA. MIDI guitar, keys, and drum pads should have less latency, as it's a one-way trip from Live through the interface to the PA.

I don't want to spend big bucks on RME, etc. I'm hoping to get a decent 2-in/2-out USB interface for around $200. There are lots to choose from!

Thanks again for the help!

If you are on a budget I recommend Focusrite Scarletts (2nd or 3rd Gen). They are perfect for low latency for a decent price. I have been able to get to 64 samples easily with them. And they are relatively cheap enough to haul around town + the smaller ones are bus powered. I think you probably could get a 4 in/4 out for about $200 if you shop around.

Scarletts are supposed to be some of the better performers when it comes to to low latency USB interfaces. Not as good as RME but from looking at an Audio Interface database alot of more expensive USB interfaces are actually worse performers than the Scarlett in terms of latency. I think the big question is if 64 samples are good enough for you. With safe mode on, my round trip is 7.83 ms and 6.83 ms with safe mode off. Me personally dont have any issues with round trips under 10 ms (matter of fact I even can manage under 15 ms pretty well), but I know it is different for different people. Im also able to use 32 samples and with that I get 6.17 and 5.17 ms respectively, but I feel a little better giving my PC some breathing room.

That's great information. Thanks a lot!

[yur2die4]

In many many cases, processing involving harmony will add latency. So be careful about expectations.

[Kevin Hamler]

In many many cases, processing involving harmony will add latency. So be careful about expectations.

Good point. I’m also checking out the various hardware harmonizers. Some certainly sound more natural than others, and detection of guitar chords is a requirement.

Are you aware of a Live harmony plug-in that does detection of incoming guitar chords? Then again, perhaps that will be best left to a hardware box.

[jlgrimes]

In many many cases, processing involving harmony will add latency. So be careful about expectations.

Good point. I’m also checking out the various hardware harmonizers. Some certainly sound more natural than others, and detection of guitar chords is a requirement.

Are you aware of a Live harmony plug-in that does detection of incoming guitar chords? Then again, perhaps that will be best left to a hardware box.

Are you wanting to harmonize a midi signal or audio?

[Kevin Hamler]

In many many cases, processing involving harmony will add latency. So be careful about expectations.

Good point. I’m also checking out the various hardware harmonizers. Some certainly sound more natural than others, and detection of guitar chords is a requirement.

Are you aware of a Live harmony plug-in that does detection of incoming guitar chords? Then again, perhaps that will be best left to a hardware box.

Are you wanting to harmonize a midi signal or audio?

Audio. Specifically, vocals, although I’m using MIDI guitar, so I’m hoping a plug-in can use the incoming MIDI guitar notes to create the vocal harmonies. We’re using Live for soft instruments, effects, and as a mixer, but not as a sequencer.

[Kevin Hamler]

What’s the deal with using a networked stage box as an audio interface? Seems too good to be true.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... -stage-box

https://youtu.be/MRtH1hhDgE4