Apple's Logic for iPadOS. Ableton, your move. :)

[chris harbin]

Thats it, I'm getting rid of everything, getting all apple and making sure I have this so I can FINALLY make music. God Abe's, what is wrong with you?????



Naw, this thread isn't that bad, but it begs the question: What is it that makes this "Abe's Move" ???

[exper]

Wow. People really take this personal. Didn’t mean to offend anyone.

I just was saying it would be really cool if Ableton made an iPadOS version of live, since now there’s at least 2 major DAWs that have one of their own.

[ozinga]

Wow. People really take this personal. Didn’t mean to offend anyone.

Do not worry, your intention is clear and naive but some users' fanboyism is beyond limits.

[Mareckii]

I’d expect Live’s version of sth like Logic remote for ipad. I know there’s this TouchAble pro, but its so counter intuitive. So Ableton, please first make an Ableton Live remote for ipad and then a ful version of Ableton Live for ipad . It would be best if current Ableton licence owners didnt have to pay for the new one for the ipad.

[pottering]

For posterity's sake, seems this thing WAS NOT EVEN RELEASED YET

You clearly missed the first sentence if the first post..

Again, great timing by Ableton with Note, it was the 1st music app to reach 1st place in the rankings, no one can't claim that anymore, not even Apple's own Logic

Who cares. It's not a pissing contest. I use the apps that suits me best.

I thought all the hype was about something people actually used, I guess that is too much to ask from people nowadays.)

That's not the concept of an hype. Many things get hyped before release, based on information that is already published or leaked.
Also nothing wrong with people getting excited based on this kind of information.

LOL WTF

[pottering]

Wow. People really take this personal. Didn’t mean to offend anyone.

I just was saying it would be really cool if Ableton made an iPadOS version of live, since now there’s at least 2 major DAWs that have one of their own.

You didn't only say that, you also defended the subscription payment model for (hypothetical) Live iOS, you should understand the pushback since you claimed to be "anti-subscriptions" yourself.

It is obvious that a successful subscription payment model for Live iOS would weaken resistance for subscription payment model for Live desktop.

It is also obvious that a wildly successful subscription payment model for Logic iOS will weaken resistance for subsc9ription payment model across the industry (just like your own "anti-subscriptions" resistance was clearly weakened).

edit:

Ableton knows exactly how much money there really is in iOS music making nowadays, since they have Note sales numbers and the public rankings that show how Note is selling compared to FL mobile and Cubasis (later Logic iOS too), so any decision will be based on those numbers, more than people's posts in social media.

Quite frankly, seems obvious to me that Note is Ableton's mobile app, and that the assumption Note can't compete with Logic iOS seems as premature as people's assumptions back in 2000s that Live can't compete with PT, Logic, DP, etc...

[chris harbin]

Wow. People really take this personal. Didn’t mean to offend anyone.

I just was saying it would be really cool if Ableton made an iPadOS version of live, since now there’s at least 2 major DAWs that have one of their own.

Fair enough. I didn't take it that way. Was simply pointing out that the "title" was a big on the hyperbole side. No, it would be cool if everyone did this.

[Flowingglower]

I’m not even that much in need for Ableton Live on my iPad ASAP. I’m super interested if Logic Pro on the iPad however means/signals that Apple finally cleans up how audio is managed on the iPad as a positive consequence.

There are still a lot of audio limitations in iPadOS (no two sound sources can output audio at the same time, there is no system wide selection of audio output such as via an Audio interface, smaller things such as that etc).

Why am i interested in apple removing those barriers? My assumption is that it will make porting eg. Live from Mac to IPad a lot easier and ultimately will allow the iPad to be a real pro device for audio.

[pottering]

There are still a lot of audio limitations in iPadOS (no two sound sources can output audio at the same time, there is no system wide selection of audio output such as via an Audio interface, smaller things such as that etc).

I think those are designed on purpose for users with low technical proficiency, and AFAIK there is no reason for Apple to assume that has changed in their ecosystem's userbase (quite the opposite, signs point that technical proficiency is declining with younger people raised only w/ mobile devices and MacOS, people that work in technical support in schools are remarking about that)

[Tarekith]

On the other hand, apps like FCP and Logic Pro are targeted at more experienced users. And Apple loves to show off all the ways the iPad is used in professional contexts (like doctors, architects, etc) in their presentations. So I don't think they are solely focused on entry level users. Who knows, maybe there's hope we get a bit more options on the audio side going forward.

[pottering]

IMO they love to show non-tech professional contexts (like doctors).

Mac users echo that by repeating the mantra of how Macs are easier to use for non-technical users.

By "technical proficiency", I mean simple stuff like knowing how to unzip and find an specific folder like VST3's default folder.

Again, that is becoming a problem for technical support in schools, young kids don't know what a folder path is anymore, they expect everything to work like App Store or Google Play, one click in a web page to install everything.

Basically, that "no two sound sources can output audio at the same time" is what kids EXPECT, they expect that when they play a song in Spotify then another app like Garageband or Logic Pro iOS will stop and vice versa.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not claiming young kids are dumber, it is simply how the mobile OSes work, they actually obfuscate the actual folder paths and other technical details.

[pottering]

Anyways, I think it is good Ableton can watch how it goes with Logic Pro before they decide anything, there is no advantage for them to rush anything now, they had to be a real early pioneer like 15 (20?) years ago to have any advantage being a early adopter, now it is better to wait for the market to mature.

Note is already doing as well as Cubasis and FL mobile, I think it is selling more than those but earning less due to much cheaper price.

Again, Ableton knows exactly how much they are earning and they can check all the public rankings for the competitors.

Steinberg is German like Ableton, both have public numbers in the company registers, Ableton surpassed them in size around 2020.

(edit: removed wrong data about Steinberg sales)

Steinberg sells Cubasis and several other products (Cubase, Wavelab, Dorico, Nuendo, hardware), seeing their revenue I don't see Cubasis selling that much, I would be surprised if it is much more than 1 million EUR of gross revenue.

Well, we will see next week if Logic Pro blows the numbers of previous music apps.

Note, since is is subs-only, when/if Apple starts bragging about Logic Pro iOS "sales", they will talk in terms of NUMBER OF SUBSCRIBERS/USERS.

Anyone that hates subs in music tech should be worried when that starts.

[Rivanni]

@Pottering: I don't understand your anti-hype campaign for someone who didn't quite understand the hype for an unreleased product. You make more fuss about the app (Apple thanks you) than the first posters in this thread, using arguments irrelevant to the app itself. Of course, you can't do anything else because the app hasn't been released yet...

[ozinga]

@potterting
I do not understand the point if Logic copies Ableton's lower zone system. Ableton copied everything after version 1 which was just an audio loop player.
Arrangement View, plugins, piano roll, browser, comping, capture recording, video track etc. Everybody gets inspired by other so what is the point?

[pottering]

@Pottering: I don't understand your anti-hype campaign for someone who didn't quite understand the hype for an unreleased product. You make more fuss about the app (Apple thanks you) than the first posters in this thread, using arguments irrelevant to the app itself. Of course, you can't do anything else because the app hasn't been released yet...

I think I made clear my anti-subscription stance, which does apply even it it was not released yet (I don't think they will change that by now).

And I'm not making any "campaign", I'm just replying to posts in a public forum, if you want it to stop or slowdown, then stop posting stuff for others to reply and comment.

@Ozinga
The point is recognizing Ableton's contributions to the music technology, including the fact that even a giant company with huge budget and focus on "good design" like Apple can't come out with better designs than Ableton.

I bet they tried, Apple is not like Behringer or Bitwig, they probably had internal discussions trying to come up with something new and avoid copying Live, and yet they just couldn't come up with any in the end.