Push 3 - USB C Power

Discuss Push with other users.
ensonador
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 9:14 am

Re: Push 3 - USB C Power

Post by ensonador » Fri Jun 02, 2023 5:06 am

J0n35y wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:49 pm
So Ableton have responded and told me it is not possible to use a Push 3 with usb power only. It must always be plugged into the mains.
grein wrote:
Sat May 27, 2023 5:58 pm
Just to chime in, my Push 3 controller is working fine powered with USB-C (M1 MacBook Pro, even if unplugged). I haven’t tried to use the power adapter yet, so can’t comment on screen brightness, but it seems fine.
It is more confusing than week ago. :o

J0n35y
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:29 pm

Re: Push 3 - USB C Power

Post by J0n35y » Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:36 am

ensonador wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 5:06 am
J0n35y wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:49 pm
So Ableton have responded and told me it is not possible to use a Push 3 with usb power only. It must always be plugged into the mains.
grein wrote:
Sat May 27, 2023 5:58 pm
Just to chime in, my Push 3 controller is working fine powered with USB-C (M1 MacBook Pro, even if unplugged). I haven’t tried to use the power adapter yet, so can’t comment on screen brightness, but it seems fine.
It is more confusing than week ago. :o
:D

I think the Ableton support person must be confused. I've asked the question again on Elektronauts and Facebook and I'm getting reconfirmations through that USB Bus power works fine with the controller version.

There is a piece in the manual which is sort of written with the standalone in mind (I think) but someone made a very good point that both standalone and controller are meant to be identical other than battery, SSD, wifi and processor. So really the USB port should be identical on both devices (in theory).

ultimately, I think this is going to boil down to either a faulty Push 3 port or something isn't quite right with the Push 3 firmware and it's not recognising the USB C port on my 2023 MBP 14 M2 Pro. Hopefully the latter and it can be fixed but got a gut feeling this may be a deal breaker for me :cry: It's a minor thing but enough to frustrate me in the long term.
Last edited by J0n35y on Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nickyjay
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue May 30, 2023 11:11 am

Re: Push 3 - USB C Power

Post by Nickyjay » Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:46 am

I agree, This is very confusing indeed. I am waiting for ableton to respond to my support ticket I raised 3 days ago, hopefully the will respond. Once they do I will post there responce here too.
In the Setting Up Push 3 Instructions, it clearly states that you can use the USB cable only when connected to the computer.

Qoute

"Connect Push to your Computer

Connect Push to your computer with the USB-C cable that came with Push. You can optionally connect the power supply to charge Push while connected to your computer."


This is stated here: https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... -Up-Push-3

If this information is not correct then they need to communicate this to those that have spent a large sum of money, ajust any instuctions and guidence and insure that they clearly set any expectations from the product correctly.

Maybe the person that responded on the helpdesk had not recived the correct breif, I dont know, but if I get the same I will certainly be challenging this based on the evedence above.

Nickyjay
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue May 30, 2023 11:11 am

Re: Push 3 - USB C Power

Post by Nickyjay » Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:00 am

J0n35y wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:36 am
ensonador wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 5:06 am
J0n35y wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:49 pm
So Ableton have responded and told me it is not possible to use a Push 3 with usb power only. It must always be plugged into the mains.
grein wrote:
Sat May 27, 2023 5:58 pm
Just to chime in, my Push 3 controller is working fine powered with USB-C (M1 MacBook Pro, even if unplugged). I haven’t tried to use the power adapter yet, so can’t comment on screen brightness, but it seems fine.
It is more confusing than week ago. :o
:D

I think the Ableton support person must be confused. I've asked the question again on Elektronauts and Facebook and I'm getting reconfirmations through that USB Bus power works fine with the controller version.

There is a piece in the manual which is sort of written with the standalone in mind (I think) but someone made a very good point that both standalone and controller are meant to be identical other than battery, SSD, wifi and processor. So really the USB port should be identical on both devices (in theory).

ultimately, I think this is going to boil down to either a faulty Push 3 port or something isn't quite right with the Push 3 firmware and it's not recognising the USB C port on my 2023 MBP 14 M2 Pro. Hopefully the latter and it can be fixed but got a gut feeling this may be a deal breaker for me :cry: It's a minor thing but enough to frustrate me in the long term.
Hopfully, if this is a hardware fault they will send a replacement out so we can swap the devices directly with the courior. Also even though its a minor thing, it is going to effect any resale value you have with the device as its faulty, so you will lose out in the future compared to others.

J0n35y
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:29 pm

Re: Push 3 - USB C Power

Post by J0n35y » Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:12 am

Yeah that's a good point on resale though to be fair, I've had a Push pretty much since the first one was released a decade or so ago. I don't see myself selling it! But there were a couple of things with my Push 2 I let slide like some stiff encoders and slight uneven sensitivity in some pads that.I always regretted not kicking up a fuss about so not likely to be as lenient this time around.

So far, it's just this usb bus power issue with my unit. If it's a problem with my Mac then fine, I make do for now but I was getting the same behaviour when plugged into my work laptops USB C - though lets be honest, the work laptop is locked down and hardly a good example.

So still hoping for a firmware solution but starting to expect it's a hardware issue.

nori.lam
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:53 am

Re: Push 3 - USB C Power

Post by nori.lam » Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:30 am

Just a thought but did you check that the usb c cable you tested had a min PD rating of say 65W?

I remember reading somewhere that charging via usb C required PD of 65W, so I assume the cable needs to be able to deliver the same?

J0n35y
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:29 pm

Re: Push 3 - USB C Power

Post by J0n35y » Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:44 am

nori.lam wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:30 am
Just a thought but did you check that the usb c cable you tested had a min PD rating of say 65W?

I remember reading somewhere that charging via usb C required PD of 65W, so I assume the cable needs to be able to deliver the same?
Yeah I did. Well, I used Apple USB C charger cable (believed to be highly rated in terms of watts) and also specifically bought a 100W cable last Friday and still no luck. It would make some sense that it's linked in some way to cabling but my no tech brain thinks it could as likely be the ports not talking to each other to tell Push 3 to draw power over cable (if that makes sense).

At the very least, I've tried about 7 or 8 cables now and no danger I don't have at lest 2 or 3 65W+ cables in that pile from various mobile phones and the likes!

nori.lam
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:53 am

Re: Push 3 - USB C Power

Post by nori.lam » Fri Jun 02, 2023 9:26 am

Ah thats too bad. Well hope support can help get you sorted out quickly.

[jur]
Site Admin
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Re: Push 3 - USB C Power

Post by [jur] » Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:51 am

randi wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:04 pm
@[jur] you said this was a bug?
Well, none of us with a Standalone can make this work and I was never able to make it work during beta phase and reported it, but the manual states that the Standalone can be powered by the usb only. So unless that's an error in the manual then I consider it a bug.
Ableton Forum Moderator

J0n35y
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:29 pm

Re: Push 3 - USB C Power

Post by J0n35y » Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:08 pm

Ableton support got back to me again with a bit of a change in tune.

Confirmed that it is possible to bus power but it has only been tested (and recommended) with the official Ableton cable.

I’ve been told my Push should power with the official cable but I’ll need to wait until late June for a new cable. Not sure it’ll make a difference as refuse to believe not one of the other cables I’ve used deliver enough power!

Going to sleep on it before responding but leaning towards returning it and repurchasing when new stock arrives. I don’t like the thought of having a unit that’s not 100% especially when I’ll likely upgrade later in the year.

Tarekith
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Re: Push 3 - USB C Power

Post by Tarekith » Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:06 pm

Just got an update from HQ in Berlin I wanted to pass on:

- P3 controller with 15W USB-C only operates with dimmed display and LEDs
- P3 Standalone, will slowly drain the battery for a USB-C connection to a computer as these are maximum 15W.

There will be more info coming shortly about this.
Tarekith
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https://tarekith.com

J0n35y
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:29 pm

Re: Push 3 - USB C Power

Post by J0n35y » Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:33 pm

Tarekith wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:06 pm
Just got an update from HQ in Berlin I wanted to pass on:

- P3 controller with 15W USB-C only operates with dimmed display and LEDs
- P3 Standalone, will slowly drain the battery for a USB-C connection to a computer as these are maximum 15W.

There will be more info coming shortly about this.
Thanks for this. Makes me slightly more convinced the port on my P3 Controller must be some sort of a dud then. Honestly reckon I must be up to a dozen cables tried and tested now!

15W seems really low though. Is that a typo?

Tarekith
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Re: Push 3 - USB C Power

Post by Tarekith » Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:40 pm

Not a typo, we’ll have an official knowledge base article out soon.
Tarekith
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J0n35y
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:29 pm

Re: Push 3 - USB C Power

Post by J0n35y » Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:45 pm

Tarekith wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:40 pm
Not a typo, we’ll have an official knowledge base article out soon.
Ok, good to know. I’ll see what the next update I get from Ableton support is like. Will be good to have the official line in the Knowledge Base though.

Just wish I could have a definitive answer on my Push 3 but I suppose that’s Ableton and other users confirming it should work which probably tells me all I need to know about my Push!

FlipBit
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:13 pm

Re: Push 3 - USB C Power

Post by FlipBit » Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:49 pm

I can confirm. I tried all kind of USB-A to USB-C cables I have and with none of them Push 3 (Controller Only) managed to power on.

The only way to make it work was with USB-C to USB-C cable to my X570 Asus motherboard. And yes it was with dimmed display and LEDs.

P.S. 15W is a lot of power for USB port. Regular USB 3.2 ports are up to 7.5W. (If you are interested you can read more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Power)

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