Midi Muting is not working correct.

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dest4b
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Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:56 am

Midi Muting is not working correct.

Post by dest4b » Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:03 am

Situation:

- Midi Muting is not working correct. In external Instrument it is not muting midi at all.
- On normal Miditrack it does not send midi off command as you press Mute. Results in Note hiccups.

Wanna Check it ?


External Instrument:

Connect a Synthesizer to your Mixer. Connect Midi or USB to Push ..

Use an "External Instrument" Plugin on a Miditrack to sequence an external Synthesizer. Choose Midi port and channel. Set some Notes.
Press Play. If you presss mute on Push the Midi Notes are still triggering the Synth.

As it is adviced from ableton to use the External Instrument for External Instruments
That means there is no Mute possible, if the Synthesizer is connected to a External Mixer.


Just Midi Track:

If i use just a normal midi track with a midiclip for sequencing an external Synthesizer, mute is partially working.

that means: if you press mute until a note is played Push dont send a Note Off via Midi. It prevents only Notes to be triggered until Mute is active.



Use a Midi track configure output port. Configure Midi channel. Create longer Notes in a sequence .. press play
Now press Mute until a Note is triggered. Note is hanging until a new note on the same key is triggered.
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dest4b
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Re: Midi Muting is not working correct.

Post by dest4b » Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:46 pm

Ok on Ableton DAW it is the same with the External Instrument.
But at least there should be a option for Midi or audio Mute.. This is a thing for feature wishlist.

But if i do the thing with a standard midi Track ( no external instrument ) in Ableton (DAW)
The mute is working as expected Midi Notes are muted and Note Off is send. So there are no "hanging" notes.

On Push no Midi Note Off is send.

So a Bug. i guess.
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jmljunior
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Re: Midi Muting is not working correct.

Post by jmljunior » Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:14 pm

That's just how it works, unfortunately.

Yeah, you'd expect muting a track with an external instrument would stop sending midi. But it only mutes the audio portion of the channel.

I'd love to see a preference setting for this... "Track disarm mutes both midi and audio" or something.

But basically for external instrument tracks, you have to disable or stop the clips for it to not send midi.

dest4b
Posts: 122
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Re: Midi Muting is not working correct.

Post by dest4b » Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:19 pm

8O i yust quote myself
dest4b wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:46 pm
But if i do the thing with a standard midi Track ( no external instrument ) in Ableton (DAW)
The mute is working as expected Midi Notes are muted and Note Off is send. So there are no "hanging" notes.

On Push no Midi Note Off is send.

So a Bug. i guess.
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dest4b
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Re: Midi Muting is not working correct.

Post by dest4b » Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:36 am

answer from support.

they are trying to fix that as soon as possible.
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jmljunior
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Re: Midi Muting is not working correct.

Post by jmljunior » Tue Jul 04, 2023 3:00 am

This happens on my launchpad pro mk3 as well. But it ALSO happens just by muting with the mouse in the daw.

If you mute a midi track while it's playing a note, then the note hangs. You have to unmute or restart the clip to get it working correctly again.

So it's not unique to a push or other controller, it's just a general ableton midi bug. What a joke.

dest4b
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Re: Midi Muting is not working correct.

Post by dest4b » Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:51 am

Win or Mac ?
I am on Windows and it is working fine. As it have to.

Maybe it is a Mac/Linux based problem ???

BTW now Ableton support is telling me that this is a normal behavior :D and not a Bug.



The support is so lost....Im a bit fuckd off.
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[jur]
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Re: Midi Muting is not working correct.

Post by [jur] » Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:40 pm

jmljunior wrote:
Tue Jul 04, 2023 3:00 am
If you mute a midi track while it's playing a note, then the note hangs.


When you're muting a track's mixer, it's muting the audio output of the track, so it doesn't matter if the track is a midi track: the mixer deals with audio, not midi.
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dest4b
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Re: Midi Muting is not working correct.

Post by dest4b » Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:53 pm

correct.. but i am not muting audio in push.
I am muting a midi Track. Audio is imuted if i press mute on my external mixer.

Dont understand that? Or wasnt it a Question ?
Ableton on Windows Mutes Midi correct.
On Push standalone it doesent and maybe there is the same Bug on osx. I cant test it here. Feel free to test it on OSX. But the answer from support seems like there is also a Bug in OSX But they dont see any Bug in it.
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[jur]
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Re: Midi Muting is not working correct.

Post by [jur] » Tue Jul 04, 2023 3:23 pm

Just tested by sending midi from track A to midi track B where there's a synth, and when muting track A in the middle of a playing note this note keeps on playing for ever. Is this what you're talking about?
So this is different on Windows?
I wonder if this is related to a behavior that's actually pretty useful which is:
- play notes and hold your sustain pedal
- now select another midi track release your sustain pedal and keeps on plyaing that track
> the notes on the 1st midi track will keep sustaining
this is very useful for quickly making a drone and keeps on doing stuf with other tracks, and I know it works the same in Logic (and other DAWs?).

Note aside: I understand that you are pissed off with the P3 issues and Support, but please don't talk to us here with arrogance, that doesn't invite helping you... and it's not far away from breaking the forum community guidelines
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dest4b
Posts: 122
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Re: Midi Muting is not working correct.

Post by dest4b » Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:03 pm

thats it! Under Windows it sends Note Off.
Thats theway all other devices and or DAWs are working.

Pushs and OSX Abletons Midi Muting is not working propperly.

Im happy that it works under windows as it have to.
I dont want drones. Its not a feature. Its a Bug.

Thx for testing. Anyway, im out. Im Push3less. And back on Track.
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dest4b
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Re: Midi Muting is not working correct.

Post by dest4b » Wed Jul 05, 2023 5:55 pm

So .. i tried it on my notebook

with ableton 11.3.3
Midi Mute was working as usual.

Updated to 11.3.4
Midi Mute is not working as usual. Note Off not send. Endless Sustain. :(

Bad thing is now my Big DAW has made an autoupdate to 11.3.4 and Mute is not working anymore. At least not useful.
I try to get back to 11.3.3

But its not a Push Problem its Ableton 11.3.4 based.
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Tarekith
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Re: Midi Muting is not working correct.

Post by Tarekith » Wed Jul 05, 2023 7:06 pm

Best thing you can do is submit a bug report to support, not much will happen just posting on the forums:

https://www.ableton.com/en/help/#contact-support

Might want to turn off auto updates as well.
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dest4b
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:56 am

Re: Midi Muting is not working correct.

Post by dest4b » Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:56 am

@Tarekith

Thats one of the reasons because i returned my Push. Argueing with support.

In this case my Support assistant is trying to tell me that Midi Mute is like pulling a cable ( WTF !! ) and its a normal behavior that currently sended notes are sustained for ever because no not off is send.

I send a Video from my Ableton that shows that the muting was working correct on my DAW ( before the update to 11.3.4 ). But not on Push.
So i guessed that it might be a MAC Linux problem because on my DAW it is working as usual.

Then support answers me that on all Ableton versions in Support ( Win / OSX / and Push ) the muting is working correct. ( without note Off )
Also my DAW on my Computer must have a BUG because it Mutes in a different way. ( the correct way ) ( yes my bug was not to update Ableton )

And that was Ableton does is the correct and wanted way that Ableton handels Midi Mutes without note off.

And i answered that i dont have any other DAW or Hardware that is not sending note off if you press MUTE.
But i am marked as a silly user. Same with my other Bugs.



again .. i am f@*kd off.
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dest4b
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Re: Midi Muting is not working correct.

Post by dest4b » Thu Jul 06, 2023 9:38 am

followed your advice.. created a ticket regarding ableton and not Push.

Ticket is marked as solved and closed without any comment.

Bro!
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