Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

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resequenced
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by resequenced » Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:00 pm

102455 wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:56 pm
Mine's arrived. I took a pic of the box but seems we can't upload here, so generic pic from Google:

Image

The labels on the box and the unit itself (inside the recessed part) say it's a UE300 (UN) Ver: 4.0

Turned off the Wi-Fi on the Push, connected the UE300 and proceeded to successfully update the conveniently available firmware to 1.1.1
Thanks for taking the time to come back and report that it worked for you. At least we know this really works with other hardware versions.

I've been doing some experiments with the Push 3 standalone by installing the 1.1.1 update over its integrated AX201 Intel WiFi. The download of the 1.1.1 firmware was being downloaded at 18-20 mbps. Perhaps there's an issue with the intel wifi driver in the 5.15.48-intel-pk-preempt-rt running on the Push 3 or some setting which causes this? It'd be great to track this down. I was able to download from the Ableton CDN at 70 MB/s on a regular computer.

I'll download the next update over the Ethernet connection using the adapter to figure out if this is specific to the wireless connection or not.

There's an update regarding my support ticket. I've received a second reply from Ableton support. The suggestions for improving the performance and stabilty of the Push are being sent to the team who works on the software. The bugs and crashes are still being looked at. I can imagine they're looking at a lot of crashes to figure out what's the full list of issues.

resequenced
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by resequenced » Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:34 pm

I've run into a bug again. It seemed that I've done something wrong the first time. I wasn't sure if it was my mistake or if it was indeed a bug.

I had a very simple sequence of notes in a clip. I couldn't select them all. The notes weren't being highlighted anymore. I've tried select all and the big knob on the right side. Select all worked just fine previously. Selecting individual notes with the wheel also worked.

This issue couldn't be fixed by loading another live set and loading the current set again after that. The only way to fix it was to shut the device down and power it on again.

I've updated my support ticket to provide a photo and a video recording of the Push 3 standalone. I show how the select all doesn't really highlight the notes, how done doesn't do anything to clear this bad state and how the wheel doesn't scroll through the notes.

Copy pasting notes doesn't seem to be a thing either. I've only been able to use the double loop button to copy the entire clip.

This is starting to look like we're beta testing a product. The unfortunate part is that it costs too much for this to be acceptable.

castanea
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by castanea » Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:02 pm

Ummm, yeah. I'm quite disappointed so far. After software updating mine is now just flashing the octave keys and won't get beyond this stage. It's been like this for 40 minutes and counting..

Tarekith
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by Tarekith » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:42 pm

resequenced wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:34 pm
I've run into a bug again. It seemed that I've done something wrong the first time. I wasn't sure if it was my mistake or if it was indeed a bug.

I had a very simple sequence of notes in a clip. I couldn't select them all. The notes weren't being highlighted anymore. I've tried select all and the big knob on the right side. Select all worked just fine previously. Selecting individual notes with the wheel also worked.

This issue couldn't be fixed by loading another live set and loading the current set again after that. The only way to fix it was to shut the device down and power it on again.

I've updated my support ticket to provide a photo and a video recording of the Push 3 standalone. I show how the select all doesn't really highlight the notes, how done doesn't do anything to clear this bad state and how the wheel doesn't scroll through the notes.

Copy pasting notes doesn't seem to be a thing either. I've only been able to use the double loop button to copy the entire clip.

This is starting to look like we're beta testing a product. The unfortunate part is that it costs too much for this to be acceptable.
Check to see if maybe that Clip is is Frozen. This happened to me as well for no reason and unfreezing it fixed the issue.
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resequenced
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by resequenced » Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:32 am

Tarekith wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:42 pm
resequenced wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:34 pm
I've run into a bug again. It seemed that I've done something wrong the first time. I wasn't sure if it was my mistake or if it was indeed a bug.

I had a very simple sequence of notes in a clip. I couldn't select them all. The notes weren't being highlighted anymore. I've tried select all and the big knob on the right side. Select all worked just fine previously. Selecting individual notes with the wheel also worked.

This issue couldn't be fixed by loading another live set and loading the current set again after that. The only way to fix it was to shut the device down and power it on again.

I've updated my support ticket to provide a photo and a video recording of the Push 3 standalone. I show how the select all doesn't really highlight the notes, how done doesn't do anything to clear this bad state and how the wheel doesn't scroll through the notes.

Copy pasting notes doesn't seem to be a thing either. I've only been able to use the double loop button to copy the entire clip.

This is starting to look like we're beta testing a product. The unfortunate part is that it costs too much for this to be acceptable.
Check to see if maybe that Clip is is Frozen. This happened to me as well for no reason and unfreezing it fixed the issue.
Thanks for the help.

The clip was certainly not frozen. I had to check to see if that function is something I could've used accidentally. It's not. It also doesn't make sense for what I was doing. I closed the open set, opened another saved one and opened it again after a cold boot. I could edit the notes after booting the device again and loading the same saved set. It's not related to one of the modes for the editor (as in changing it with the layout button).

I've run into another issue. The controller side of the device seemed to go dark for about 5-10 seconds. The display turned itself off, turned itself on, flashed the pads as it does on boot and returned to the instrument settings screen. I had a clip playing throughout this whole episode. The whole device didn't reboot. The controller must have crashed or the connection with the NUC compute element computer must have been lost for a short time.
Perhaps the USB device was restarted by the host (the NUC)? I'll have to check yesterday's logs. Support has my latest crash logs already.

The battery drain while the device is turned off seems to not be such a big issue anymore. I've drained the battery and recharged it again as support has recommended in their second reply. The battery still drains fast while the device is idling. Turn the device on, connect some cables for audio and the device may have already lost 10-15% of its available battery.

Ableton didn't provide any solutions for any of the other reported issues so far. I've received two replies so far: the initial one last week and a second reply on Monday.

I'll return this device if nothing meaningful is done by the end of the next week. Live has some great packs and presets. It's unfortunate that the bugs, the crashes and the poor overall experience cast a shadow over all the good things. It's certainly not a product which is worth the money spent on it.

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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by SvenH » Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:46 am

resequenced wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:29 am
It'd be great to see the missing functionality added to the Push 3. This includes an arrangement view, being able to put together instrument racks on the Push 3 (to modify them, save them and so on)...
Say what? I have considered getting the Push 3S mainly for sound design - to create cool sounds away from the computer and then make songs with these sounds when I am back at my computer (in the arrangement view). But if I can not create and save racks on the standalone I guess it's not worth it...

Is it possible to create racks on the push controller connected to a PC without touching the mouse or keyboard?

Is there any official and complete list somewhere listing all the functionality missing from the standalone version?

TheLoudest
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by TheLoudest » Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:17 pm

SvenH wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:46 am
Is there any official and complete list somewhere listing all the functionality missing from the standalone version?
Great idea! That would be great.

resequenced
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by resequenced » Fri Jun 09, 2023 6:43 pm

SvenH wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:46 am
resequenced wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:29 am
It'd be great to see the missing functionality added to the Push 3. This includes an arrangement view, being able to put together instrument racks on the Push 3 (to modify them, save them and so on)...
Say what? I have considered getting the Push 3S mainly for sound design - to create cool sounds away from the computer and then make songs with these sounds when I am back at my computer (in the arrangement view). But if I can not create and save racks on the standalone I guess it's not worth it...

Is it possible to create racks on the push controller connected to a PC without touching the mouse or keyboard?

Is there any official and complete list somewhere listing all the functionality missing from the standalone version?
https://www.ableton.com/en/push/manual/ is the Push 3 manual. Functionality not shown in that manual is likely to not be present on the device's software.

I haven't tried Push 3 in controller mode. I wouldn't expect it to be able to do something that the standalone device can't do. Push 3 in controller mode connected to the desktop Live is probably the same as the Push 3 running in standalone mode. They're both connected to Live.

Existing instrument racks can be used on the Push 3 standalone. It lets us add effects and other devices to the instrument rack. It doesn't seem possible to map the macro knobs of the instrument rack on the Push 3. It does allow us to use macro knobs already set up via presets (or in the set).

I haven't found a way to map macros or to add instruments to an instrument rack created on the Push 3 standalone.

Sound design should be possible when using the Push 3 standalone. Devices can be removed, replaced and reordered. Pressing the button below the encoder and above the device on screen will ask the user to choose where to move the device. Rotating the encoder will move the device to the right or to the left. The device's settings can be accessed one by one. It might take a bit of effort to figure out where to find something from the desktop based Live on the Push 3 standalone.

The editor of the midi clips doesn't have a copy-paste function for notes. Only double loop is available. Moving notes, adding probability, nudging, changing note length and velocity are all available. The smallest grid size available in the editor is 1/32.

My impression so far is that the available features can be used to design some sounds, to prepare some clips and do a few other things. Midi mappings and other functionality requires the desktop version of Live. The sets would have to be transferred with the desired configuration for midi, macros and everything else.

Someone who wonders how they could get by today with Push 3 standalone needs to think of their workflow. Sound design is possible. The instrument racks would have to be put together on the desktop. Longer and complex midi clips can be created. It's possible to record, copy the clip and edit it as needed to make it into what's desired.

The final song has to be arranged on the desktop Live, not on the Push 3. It has no arrangement view at all. I haven't even attempted to record synths, voice or anything else yet. I expect to run into other issues there. Bugs, missing functionality and lack of documentation will most likely to cause issues.

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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by SvenH » Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:32 pm

Thanks resequenced for taking the time to reply. I will try to find and read the relevant (for me) parts of the manual. But it is probably hard to figure it all out by reading, I guess I would need to try it in practice to find out if it works for me, but it seems to be quite a bit of a hassle (work and time) to order, receive, setup and then return if not happy. I wish I could just test it out for some 10-15 minutes in a music shop...

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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by SvenH » Sat Jun 10, 2023 6:00 am

resequenced wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 6:43 pm
Existing instrument racks can be used on the Push 3 standalone. It lets us add effects and other devices to the instrument rack. It doesn't seem possible to map the macro knobs of the instrument rack on the Push 3. It does allow us to use macro knobs already set up via presets (or in the set).

I haven't found a way to map macros or to add instruments to an instrument rack created on the Push 3 standalone.
I have checked the manual now and it does not seem detailed enough to tell everything you can (or can't) do, so I am still trying to understand what you write here:
  • You can't map macros on P3S? I can somewhat understand if it is like this - it may be difficult to create a decent workflow for this.
  • You can't "add instruments to an instrument rack". By this you mean that you can't create a new chain? I find this harder to belive - this is a very serious restriction and I can not see why this would be difficult to implement.

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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by [jur] » Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:30 pm

SvenH wrote:
Sat Jun 10, 2023 6:00 am
You can't "add instruments to an instrument rack". By this you mean that you can't create a new chain? I find this harder to belive - this is a very serious restriction and I can not see why this would be difficult to implement.
No you can't add a new chain, you can only add devices in an already existing chain.
But you could workaround this by preparing an instrument rack with multiple (empty) chains in Live, and then transfer this preset to P3. Since you can select chains from Push, this sounds like a decent workaround.
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resequenced
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by resequenced » Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:38 pm

SvenH wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:32 pm
Thanks resequenced for taking the time to reply. I will try to find and read the relevant (for me) parts of the manual. But it is probably hard to figure it all out by reading, I guess I would need to try it in practice to find out if it works for me, but it seems to be quite a bit of a hassle (work and time) to order, receive, setup and then return if not happy. I wish I could just test it out for some 10-15 minutes in a music shop...
My suggestion is to write down what you usually do when you put together songs and break down the process into various activities. You can figure out what's possible on the Push 3 and what's not.
SvenH wrote:
Sat Jun 10, 2023 6:00 am

I have checked the manual now and it does not seem detailed enough to tell everything you can (or can't) do, so I am still trying to understand what you write here:
  • You can't map macros on P3S? I can somewhat understand if it is like this - it may be difficult to create a decent workflow for this.
  • You can't "add instruments to an instrument rack". By this you mean that you can't create a new chain? I find this harder to belive - this is a very serious restriction and I can not see why this would be difficult to implement.
Yes, you really can't do that. I've done a bit of research while writing that reply. It took a while to try everything I could think of. The goal was to help others figure out what state the Push 3 standalone is in right now.
[jur] wrote:
Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:30 pm

No you can't add a new chain, you can only add devices in an already existing chain.
But you could workaround this by preparing an instrument rack with multiple (empty) chains in Live, and then transfer this preset to P3. Since you can select chains from Push, this sounds like a decent workaround.
This makes Push 3 standalone not so standalone. The macros are also not something which can be configured on the Push 3 standalone. It's really difficult to like in the state it is, both in terms of bugs and missing functionality. The experience with Push 3 is a rather disappointing one If it's necessary to send the project to the computer and bring it back when doing something not supported on the Push 3. The whole point of this device was to run as a standalone device where one can make music without a mouse and keyboard (or a trackpad & keyboard).

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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by SvenH » Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:37 pm

[jur] wrote:
Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:30 pm
SvenH wrote:
Sat Jun 10, 2023 6:00 am
You can't "add instruments to an instrument rack". By this you mean that you can't create a new chain? I find this harder to belive - this is a very serious restriction and I can not see why this would be difficult to implement.
No you can't add a new chain, you can only add devices in an already existing chain.
But you could workaround this by preparing an instrument rack with multiple (empty) chains in Live, and then transfer this preset to P3. Since you can select chains from Push, this sounds like a decent workaround.
Yes, that would probably be a decent workaround! Thanks for the idea! I hope they implement the possibility of adding chains in future updates.

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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by SvenH » Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:44 pm

resequenced wrote:
Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:38 pm
My suggestion is to write down what you usually do when you put together songs and break down the process into various activities. You can figure out what's possible on the Push 3 and what's not.
Great advice, I will probably do something like that!
resequenced wrote:
Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:38 pm
I've done a bit of research while writing that reply. It took a while to try everything I could think of. The goal was to help others figure out what state the Push 3 standalone is in right now.
Yes, that is indeed really helpful and valuable info - much appreciated! :D

resequenced
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Re: Ableton Push 3 standalone is buggy and crashes

Post by resequenced » Wed Jun 14, 2023 7:13 am

I've received a reply from Ableton support on the ticket related to the bugs and crashes. The reply said that I should wait because the bugs and crashes are being worked on. No ETA was provided. I wasn't told whether this was in the 30 days return window or not.

I'll request a return next week so the 30 days don't pass. This whole experience with the Push 3 standalone isn't what I expected from Ableton. It's a very expensive and unfinished product which isn't worth the money at all. It can't replace a proper sequencer, nor a daw. It's not that central piece of my dawless setup. It's mostly a sidekick which relies on Live running on a computer to do the things it can't. It's also not able to work properly with a midi sequencer and a proper clock generator right now. That makes it just an overpriced multi-synth, sampler and sample player which isn't able to work well with other devices.

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