How to make my piano sound excellent and realistic with my Live Suite ?

[morphism]

Hello, this question may be stupid because I am a beginner to Ableton Live

I am a user to Live Suite 11 (so even have MAX/MSP etc inside)

Yet my grand piano sound is not so great though I am using one of many choices in installed piano sounds

Then isn't there any good way to make my piano sound great and realistic such like professional VSTs (Vienna Imperial etc) with my Live Suite 11 ?

For example, can I do such job if I try with MAX/MSP inside?

Thank you and see you

[fishmonkey]

i'm sad to say that none of the included Live Suite grand piano sounds can compete with the decent third party offerings out there — you won't find Live Suite on any "best virtual piano" lists.

[morphism]

i'm sad to say that none of the included Live Suite grand piano sounds can compete with the decent third party offerings out there — you won't find Live Suite on any "best virtual piano" lists.

Thank you. I understand. Have a nice day

[yur2die4]

I think the e-instruments Grand Piano pack sounds pretty good. It is included in Live Suite. The ‘Solo’ version should have the most presence, since it’s meant to be the focus.

The thing about instruments is not only the product or samples used, or the production afterwards, but the expressive use in a meaningful way to give the impression you’re actually playing the instrument. Some collections of instruments are very Expressive, but you’d never know it if you’re just Drawing in notes, not using the sustain pedal properly, and not taking advantage of velocity.

[[jur]]

The thing about instruments is not only the product or samples used, or the production afterwards, but the expressive use in a meaningful way to give the impression you’re actually playing the instrument.

You're absolutely right imo. That's more in this area than in the actual sampling quality (which is excellent everywhere for many years) where the problem lives.
Here's my trick using Live pianos: I layer the very unpolished and great sounding Spitfire Upright Piano Pack (quite compressed to bring the noise and dirt up) with any of the other (way too polished but with loads of dynamic layers) grand piano from other Live Packs. The upright gives me something very real (I've always preferred the sound uprights in real life), alive, and the grand provides some clarity and a touch of polish and dynamics.
It works well, at least for me.
I've tried many 3rd party pianos, and I don't think many offer a lot more than Suite's content (which is true for any kind of instruments and effects, but that's another topic). Imo you don't need 3rd party stuff if you're ok spending a bit of time trying stuff out and experimenting (which I reckon is not something everyone always likes). Don't underestimate the power of Live's racks and parallel chains.

[fishmonkey]

hmmm. it depends what you are trying to do.

a piano is one of the most difficult instruments to recreate virtually, due to the harmonic complexity and nuance it is capable of, with so many strings vibrating together with a soundboard, various sustain pedals and dampers, etc.

if you are after an excellent, realistic solo grand piano sound then IMO layering will not get you there (layering makes it sound more like a processed piano)...

[[jur]]

hmmm. it depends what you are trying to do.

a piano is one of the most difficult instruments to recreate virtually, due to the harmonic complexity and nuance it is capable of, with so many strings vibrating together with a soundboard, various sustain pedals and dampers, etc.

if you are after an excellent, realistic solo grand piano sound then IMO layering will not get you there (layering makes it sound more like a processed piano)...

You're totally right (though layering specifically with Spitfire's upright works very well for me, and I've to admit I'm layering it with Pianoteq rather than other Suite pianos, but it works very well with some of those too imo).
If you think of any acoustic instrument you end up thinking that THIS ONE is the most difficult to recreate virtually, actually. I'm often tempted to think that percussions/drums are a very good candidate, but this never hold up very long Even triangles!
That's being said, I've been monitoring the 2nd hand market for an upright for at least 2 years on and off (yeah, I hate doing this type of research so it's taking quite a long time ), because yeah, nothing will ever provide even the 1/10th of what a piano is capable of, what you experience sitting in front of it, and simply how strings, skins, pipes etc vibrate and interacts with their environnement and between each other. How do you feel engaged and inspired by something with a reduced expressive feedback?

But, we're blessed having access to all those fantastic virtual instruments, and more often than not they work great in the mix (well, as long as you're not after really using anything else than very traditional playing styles and technics, which is another problem , there's more and more "dirtier" sampling technics and instrument library designs being used nowadays though, and that proves to give way more enjoyable experienced, and more "realism" )