"Baseline" Push standalone features and Ableton Live updates?

[TheEntireRobot]

I was looking for an option in Push standalone to set Clip launch mode to "toggle," which exists in desktop Live, but apprently, this option doesn't exist in Push standalone. A lot of basic configuration and functionality (like MIDI mapping) that Live has had for ages simply doesn't exist in Push standalone.

Does anyone else have a fear that Ableton will implement baseline features and options like Clip launch mode in whichever the latest Live version is at the time, requiring Push standalone users to upgrade to 12 (13, etc) to get baseline functionality that simply won't be available if we stay on Live 11?

Basically, are we going to have to pay to upgrade the Live software in order to get baseline options and functionality that have existed in the Live app for years, but haven't been implemented in Push standalone, even if we don't want or need the major new features being introduced in new versions of Live? Or are these options and functionality going to be implemented as part of Push firmware, or some other means that doesn't require spending even more money?

[scruffyfox]

It's frustrating... After seeing push3 come out and devices like Tuner supported natively, i'm left wondering if I will ever have the same functionality supported on my push2. I get it will never have _all_/most of the features like standalone does, but i'm unsure why devices like tuner are still not supported

[jrjulius]

I don’t think anyone outside of Ableton knows yet. Push Standalone is in an awkward spot — general industry practice has hardware manufacturers releasing free firmware updates, but software developers are still largely either selling paid full-version updates or SaaS subscriptions. And I’m very grateful that they didn’t go SaaS with Live 12.

Right now, we’re familiar with manufacturers using the hardware to help sell the software (like with Push 2) or using the software to help sell the hardware (like Elektron, Akai, Polyend, et al.). P3S is such a specific hybrid, I don’t realistically see how they could give free major updates for the Push hardware without also offering free updates for the desktop software. But that runs counter to their established business model, and I doubt that the P3S is profitable enough to offset the lost upgrade fees anyways.

FWIW I bought the P3S expecting to have to pay for major updates on Suite, but I also think it would be reasonable for them to provide Live Lite updates at no cost for all P3S owners — you get Lite licenses with Patterning 2 and Koala Sampler, for Pete’s sake.

As always, this is my only advice: if a product is missing features that you consider essential, don’t buy it until those features have been added. And if a developer doesn’t explicitly say that they’ll provide free updates for a specific period of time, assume either that the product will stay as-is or that you’ll be paying for updates. It’s not fun to miss out on the new shiny thing, but it’ll save you a lot of frustration in the long run.

Edit: it’s also worth noting that the nearly every feature of desktop Live is RECOGNIZED in Standalone; it’s just not available in the Standalone UI. I’ve saved presets and templates that let me use Standalone almost exactly like how I use Controller mode, even if the hybrid approach is less than ideal. In my mind that makes it more reasonable to leave 11 as-is and focus development on 12, but I expect I’m in the minority there.

[TheEntireRobot]

As always, this is my only advice: if a product is missing features that you consider essential, don’t buy it until those features have been added. And if a developer doesn’t explicitly say that they’ll provide free updates for a specific period of time, assume either that the product will stay as-is or that you’ll be paying for updates. It’s not fun to miss out on the new shiny thing, but it’ll save you a lot of frustration in the long run.

I get what you're saying, but if I knew then what I know now, I'm not sure I'd have bought Push 3. I feel like the way Push 3 has been marketed, there's an expectation that it's "Live in a box" instead of "some of Live's functionality in a box without a whole bunch of stuff you think should be in there but strangely isn't" and, as someone who had never used Live before owning Push 3, it was basically impossible to know if it had the capabilities I wanted before I bought it.

All that said, while I agree with the sentiment in "if a product is missing features that you consider essential, don’t buy it until those features have been added," the problem here isn't that I'm concerned if/when it'll get the missing features I want, but that I'm going to have to _pay_ for it because those features will only be part of a whole new version of Live.

I can't think of any other standalone device where I've needed to _pay_ for a software update to get new features. I mean, maybe devices like that exist, but I've never owned one.

[whatisnotrue]

I'm not sure if I ever had the perception of Push being "Live in a box" when I bought it, nor do I feel like it was marketed like that. My contention is that regardless of whether that is in actuality true it's still missing some cripplingly basic features like PG changes, templates, follow actions and renaming collections. Even folks on this forum were able to hack into the Push 3 drive and provide a back door to these features.... so what gives? My best guess is that all of their development resources has been going into getting Live 12 out the door, coupled with the fact that Push 3 is a really complex development project with many different components and moving parts. I mean FFS it's literally an audio interface, ADAT interface, synthesizer, MPE controller, MIDI controller and sequencer all in one hardware product. Despite my criticisms I think it's important to bare that in mind while also still advocating for the features it needs.

[jrjulius]

We also need to remember that Live 12 is probably going to be in beta until March — plenty of time for them to nail down a feature set for Standalone and make another announcement.

think the fact that they haven’t mentioned it is actually a good thing; I simply don’t believe that they would halt development on Standalone six months after release. And there’s plenty of room for small improvements with big impacts— for instance, it would probably be pretty easy to add Program Change and launch parameters by double-tapping the Clip View button. And I don’t see why they couldn’t let us organize rename Collections from the file sharing interface in Live desktop. External Instrument works just fine without desktop so we know they can get the same control happening in External Effect.

But I don’t think anyone here can speak to OP’s question whether basic upgrades like that will come to all Standalone users or if they’ll be locked behind the Live 12 upgrade. It probably won’t be as big of a deal for longtime Live users since we’re used to the release cycle, but I sympathize with new users that were primarily attracted to the Standalone features.