Midi learn instead of mapping (as a choice) - Am I the only one ?

[Calagan]

Hi There

I'm copying-pasting a feature request I made in the Centercode for Live 12, and I'm a bit amazed that nobody is interested in that.
Please let me know what you think about it...

It could be AMAZING for people using Ableton Live on stage to have the possibility to choose between mapping and midi learn (like in NI and Arturia synths for exemple).

Mapping is "eternal" and the midi message you use (note or CC) becomes excluded from any normal use other than mapping : if you use CC64 to map something, you can't use your sustain pedal anymore for anything else. If you use the note C3 to trigger something, you can't play C3 anymore on the vsti synth you're playing.
Another issue : mapping goes through the chains, racks and midi filters. When I play live, all my songs are organized in scenes, chains, chains of chains and racks inside chains, so on song A I play a piano, on song B I play bass on the intro and rhodes on the chorus and so on.
Now, with this mapping system, if I want to control with the same knob on my keyboard many different parameters, depending on the song I'm playing and the active chains I'm in (for exemple the volume of the piano on song A, a low shelf on the bass on song B-intro and a tremolo FX on the rhodes on song B-chorus), it's very complicated to manage because a mapped parameter will always be controled whatever the position in the chain.

Midi learn, at the contrary, is just a way to make a specific parameter react to a specific midi signal. I you don't want to control this parameter, you just need to filter the midi signal just like you are doing with chains.
If we could midi learn a specific parameter, and in particular the Macro Controls on each rack, we could very easily create a complex live setup where with the same knob or fader, we could control different parameters depending on where we are in the scenes and active chains.
To me, it would be very natural because it's exactly what's happening now with the midi notes : using chains you just restrict what you are playing to the active chain, and let the inactive chains protected against any midi signal (with the existing option to filter also CC signal)...
Why not do this with midi control of parameters inside Live ???

Another very interesting use : with the Ableton Live looper !
Try to imagine that you have 10 instances of the looper in your session that you want to control only when they are in an active chain. Impossible right now ! The mapping system obliges us to have only one looper instance for the whole set for each available midi button.
If we could midi learn things in Ableton Live, we could have a dedicated pedal for looping that would actually control ONLY the active loopers (and not all the loopers that are mapped with this particular pedal).

Maybe I'm alone in the way I'm using Ableton Live on stage (I play songs organized in scenes/chains, with a rack for each particular instrument I'm playing and a complex system of chains I can manipulate from my keyboard to activate the instruments I need).
But I think for other uses it could be an amazing workflow improvement to be able to use midi learn instead of mapping, and I don't think it's a very complex stuff to make available.

At least, if too complicated, to just restrict midi learn to the Macro Controls of each rack would be awesome....

[S4racen]

You do know what control surface scripts do don't you?

Cheers
D

[Calagan]

You do know what control surface scripts do don't you?

Cheers
D

Maybe I’m wrong, but it’s not related to what I’m speaking about.
Try to imagine a Live set with 2 keyboards, a drum pad and midi triggers for drums, where each scene is a different song with different vsti and fx activated depending on the chain selected.
How are control surface script supposed to help with that (given I don’t want to be obliged to touch or even watch my laptop screen in order to select devices) ?

[S4racen]

OK Cool, then you want what's midi mapped to your controller based on a scene launch, a clip launch, passing a locator in arrangement, a MIDI message or a note played on a track... ?

Then first you'll need this.... https://isotonikstudios.com/product/clyphx-pro/ which allows you to perform an action or series of actions on all of the above....

Then second you'll need this... https://isotonikstudios.com/product/cly ... -bindings/

Which allows you rot write your mappings for each MIDI Message your controller to a text file and when one of the actions listed above happens remap them on the fly...

Cheers
D

[Calagan]

Cool thanks. But I already have half a dozen of free M4L devices that do what I want.
What I would like is not rely on third party devices and have it integrated (built-in) in Live.

One can dream no ?
I’m just surprised I’m the only one needing such features