Rack macros malfunction when controlled by Push 2

[jbone1313]

See the simple rack device in the below link.

When I turn the Macro 1 knob with my mouse or keyboard, the chains are muted and unmuted according to the Macro 1 knob's mapping settings.

When I turn the Macro 1 knob with my Ableton Push2, only the first chain is ever effected.

I have tried a different USB cable and all sorts of other things, but nothing helps.

Any ideas?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mLUZs0 ... sp=sharing

[jbone1313]

This bug makes it impossible to use Push 2 to control macros with precise values. For example, Push 2 cannot be used to control Macros where the Min and Max values are set to the same value, e.g. Min 0 Max 0 or Min 10 Max 10.

Since this bug also occurs in Live 11, I submitted the below bug to Ableton's support instead of the beta project.

Steps to reproduce:
1. Add the attached device to a MIDI track.
2. Click on the "Speaker On" macro, and move it up and down with the arrow keys on a QUERTY keyboard. Notice the macro steps through the chains' "Speaker On" parameters as programmed by the macro.
3. Control the "Speaker On" macro with Push 2.

Expected results:
Controlling the "Speaker On" macro with Push 2 OR a QUERTY keyboard OR another MIDI controller steps through the chains' Speaker On parameters as programmed by the macro.

Actual results:
Controlling the "Speaker On" macro with Push fails to step through the chains' Speaker On parameters as programmed by the macro.

[[jur]]

Could it be due to the "lack" of precision (or stepping??) from the encoders? What I mean is that dec/incrementing e.g a macro knob with the up/down keyboard arrows produces steps of 1; but when turning an encoder (btw, any encoder, not just Push's ones) you get some "room" before reaching the actual value.
It's easy to see with the Selector Kits where the "Sample" macros, when controlled from Push, doesn't actually switch to the next/prev sample exactly when the value on screen displays the next value.
(If feel like my explanation is over-complicated, I should probably sleep a little bit )

[jbone1313]

Could it be due to the "lack" of precision (or stepping??) from the encoders? What I mean is that dec/incrementing e.g a macro knob with the up/down keyboard arrows produces steps of 1

Of course. It is probably related to that. But, how is that "acceptable?"

Basic macros have a range of integers from 0-127. It seems like Live just needs to be able to translate the values coming from these types of controllers to the correct integer value. It seems like some kind of rounding error is happening or something. The controller and the values it sends are not the problem; rather, it is how Live is translating the values it receives into 0-127 integer values.

It's easy to see with the Selector Kits where the "Sample" macros, when controlled from Push, doesn't actually switch to the next/prev sample exactly when the value on screen displays the next value.

Which Selector Kits are you referring to specifically?

but when turning an encoder (btw, any encoder, not just Push's ones) you get some "room" before reaching the actual value.

This does not happen with my APC40 MKII.

Appreciate your response.

[[jur]]

Which Selector Kits are you referring to specifically?

You can try with "selector kit warm.adg" or "selector kit clean.adg"

This does not happen with my APC40 MKII.

Interesting, I didn't know that!

You're welcome to report to Support

[jbone1313]

You're welcome to report to Support

Already did.

You can try with "selector kit warm.adg" or "selector kit clean.adg"

Got it. Yeah, I have not experienced the issue with chain selectors, and it does not seem to be an issue for me with the sample selector in "selector kit warm.adg."

Thanks again.

[[jur]]

it does not seem to be an issue for me with the sample selector in "selector kit warm.adg."

If you turn the encoders slowly, the sample selection change is aligned with the macro value chain on Push? Are you sure?

[jbone1313]

Are you asking about the sample selector? I.e., the thing that appears when you click the "Sel" button after expanding the Sampler's Zone tab on, say, Kick Selector Warm 1 in the Selector Kit Warm drum rack?

From what I can tell, that sample selector operates correctly when I turn the correct knob on Push 2.

[[jur]]

E.g press the Kick pad (or Select+pad), this should display the pads's macros. I'm talking about the 1st macro called "Sample" (it controls the sample selector inside Sampler - which might appear as a multisample Simpler instance actually but that doesn't really matter)

[jbone1313]

I now see what you meant when you said that "when turning an encoder you get some 'room' before reaching the actual value," HOWEVER that is NOT what is happening with my example. If what you described was actually what is happening in my example, then there would be no issue.

In your example, the sample selector operates correctly when I turn the correct knob on Push 2. I.e., when the Push 2 knob says "1" the value on the Sample dial in Live is 01 and so on. Again, that is not what is happening in the example I gave.

Have you tried my example and the reproduction steps I provided in the second comment above? I think the issue will be obvious to you if you try it.

[[jur]]

Ok, sorry I didn't check your link before
I just tried your preset and I'm getting it now.
- it's definitely looking like a bug and so you should report to Support
- I suppose your not using the chain selector because you actually want to mute a single chain and keep the rest unmuted; the workaround would be to do it with instances of Utility in each chain

[jbone1313]

Thanks for confirming. I already reported to support.

I can't use Utility as a workaround, because my effect it is a MIDI effect. Also, I must use the chain activators in order to keep my MIDI effects processing regardless or whether they are muted or unmuted.

I ended up coding a Max For Live device to sit in between Push and the chain activators. It works fine, except it induces latency, which is annoying to deal with.

[[jur]]

Did you try muting the devices by mapping their on/off butons instead?

[jbone1313]

Yes. That does not work in my case. I am working on a Max For Live product which requires using the chain activators, and I do not want to go into the details right now.