SM58 Mic with Push 3 is super quiet

[lmbauer2017]

So I'm confused about "dynamic" microphones and the push that doesn't supply phantom power. I thought if I bought a Shure SM58 which is dynamic (meaning doesn't require phantom power?) it would work with the push on High pre-amp. But it's pretty much inaudible. When I use my Focusrite and turn on phantom power it works! Am I missing something? Do ALL dynamic mics not require phantom power, or did I buy the one mic that does? Thanks! ^^;

EDIT: i forgot to mention every gain knob is maxed out, on the pre-amp and on the track

[[jur]]

When I use my Focusrite and turn on phantom power it works!

A sm58 is a dynamic mic, so you shouldn't send it phantom power! You're risking damaging it.

With P3, select the High preamp type. You can increase the input gain with the encoder above the input's level meter (but I just checked with a sm58 and it's fine enough without adding gain).

What cable are you using?

[lmbauer2017]

Reeeally… I’m using an XLR->1/4in cable, the preamp is set to high, gain is max at 20dB. So something must be going on because the guitar is the same way. I really have to crank the gain on it, but not nearly as bad as the SM58! Could it be a hardware thing? Maybe I should start a ticket if you yourself confirmed with the same mic yea?

[[jur]]

Since you're seeing the same issue with other inputs (i.e guitar), then yes you should contact Support right away, this sounds like a possible HW issue.

[jrjulius]

Are you using a “lo-z to hi-z” adapter cable or just an XLR to 1/4”? I can’t explain it in technical terms, but “z” refers to electrical impedance. The SM58 wants to see a low impedance input and the Push 3’s Inst / High settings are high impedance.

Using a proper adapter lets the microphone see what it expects to see, and it adds a pretty significant amount of passive gain to the circuit. I use the Shure A85F (https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/ac ... riant=A85F); I bought it years ago to run microphones through guitar pedals and it’s an absolute game changer for the Push 3.

Since you’re having the same issue with your guitar, I agree with [jur] that it’s a possible hardware issue. But an impedance adapter is worth buying even if you wind up with a replacement Push.

[[jur]]

But an impedance adapter is worth buying even if you wind up with a replacement Push.

Imo it's not worth spending money on such adapter atm:
- Push adapts to the correct impedance, and it doesn't work correctly with their guitar either anyway.
- your adapter only makes sense if you're trying to plug your microphone into a guitar amp or anything else that eats hi-z (high impedance), so it's not relevant in this case

Reeeally… I’m using an XLR->1/4in cable

The 1/4 jack is a TRS (i.e balanced, i.e it has 2 rings), right?
In a way I guess it is since you said it's working with your Focusrite... but you said it's working WITH phantom power, which is not how it's supposed to be.

[lmbauer2017]

Omggg so... I just tried the mic again to troubleshoot and it WORKS perfectly now.... I have no idea why it's all the sudden working.

Here's what I do know though: Originally the push was on my desk which is cluttered with all kinds of cables (computer power, Push AC power), a USB hub with a phone plugged in. I had the push controlling live at times and in standalone switching back and forth to troubleshoot a different issue. I plugged in my guitar first and was getting some serious ground fault-type sounds from it when I touched the push. Afterwards I had tried the mic and it exhibited the low volume issue.
Perhaps all that power/connections + grounding issue on the old guitar caused the Push to just freak out and get stuck somehow?

This morning: I brought the Push onto my bed purely standalone with only headphones. Plugged in the mic, set to high preamp and it immediately worked. Then I tried plugging in the AC adaptor, still worked. Then connected my laptop in controller mode using the push as Live's input, still worked. What I didn't try was plugging in the power cable to my laptop, or the guitar (I had to go to work lol).

I will try to recreate the scenario next chance I get. But for now I'm SO happy that this mic wasn't a waste of money.

Are you using a “lo-z to hi-z” adapter cable or just an XLR to 1/4”? I can’t explain it in technical terms, but “z” refers to electrical impedance. The SM58 wants to see a low impedance input and the Push 3’s Inst / High settings are high impedance.

Using a proper adapter lets the microphone see what it expects to see, and it adds a pretty significant amount of passive gain to the circuit. I use the Shure A85F (https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/ac ... riant=A85F); I bought it years ago to run microphones through guitar pedals and it’s an absolute game changer for the Push 3.

Since you’re having the same issue with your guitar, I agree with [jur] that it’s a possible hardware issue. But an impedance adapter is worth buying even if you wind up with a replacement Push.

Wow this thing is cheap! Thank you for the recommendation! The mic is a little quiet so it may not hurt to give it a try (but my inexperienced ears may be the issue there lol). Here's the cable I got:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JVCZ6DJ?ps ... ct_details

[jur] - so i actually haven't tried it without the phantom power button pressed. i was told (15 years ago) by someone who had a little experience that it needed phantom power, so that's just what I always did back then. never even thought to try it without it!

[jrjulius]

But an impedance adapter is worth buying even if you wind up with a replacement Push.

Imo it's not worth spending money on such adapter atm:
- Push adapts to the correct impedance, and it doesn't work correctly with their guitar either anyway.
- your adapter only makes sense if you're trying to plug your microphone into a guitar amp or anything else that eats hi-z (high impedance), so it's not relevant in this case

That’s really good to know! If Push can adapt to the correct impedance, I suppose any differences I heard would boil down to the transformer gain.

[braduro]

I'm just as confused about dynamic mics, lmbauer2017 and to add to the mix the distinction between a mic and an instrument gain setting. That said, there are many dynamic mics--the RE20 comes to mind, the shure sm7b--that will come in with a low signal. I long suspected this would be an issue.

[s]Maybe consider a cloudlifter. Wait, I don't think you can use a cloudlifter with Push![/s]

Yeah, that's worth having ableton look at it. But you might also consider a mic with plugin power, a term I'm borrowing from on-board camera mics. Not phantom, certainly not, but perhaps one that has room for an internal battery. I was just gifted a Nakamichi 300CM, which has a modular capsule design. That might just become my Push-ready microphone. But I don't want you throwing money at this problem. I'd rather us figure out which examples of live recording ableton intended for the Push and see if we can live with that, or if your user-case warrants a better match of equipment.

[Quidam]

I actually have the same issue bit mine didn't get magically solved, so I'm upping this thread...

[jlgrimes]

So I'm confused about "dynamic" microphones and the push that doesn't supply phantom power. I thought if I bought a Shure SM58 which is dynamic (meaning doesn't require phantom power?) it would work with the push on High pre-amp. But it's pretty much inaudible. When I use my Focusrite and turn on phantom power it works! Am I missing something? Do ALL dynamic mics not require phantom power, or did I buy the one mic that does? Thanks! ^^;

EDIT: i forgot to mention every gain knob is maxed out, on the pre-amp and on the track

The Preamps on the Push 3 I don't think is that ideal for Mic signals such as vocals (from what I hear). If you are hearing alot of noise either the built-in Preamp isn't powerful enough to properly drive the SM58 or the Input type is set incorrectly. That said I haven't recorded any mic signals on the Push.

That said I'm not familiar with the settings, you probably want to make sure you have the input type selected correctly as High might mean "High Impedance" which would be for an Electric Guitar. I don't know how well that would work for a mic.

You probably would want either a more sensitive dynamic or use an external preamp. Either a preamp with a an Adat output or a Preamp with a Line Output as a dedicated preamp would most likely supply all of the gain you will need for a SM58.


That said if the Push 3 can't drive a Dynamic mic like the SM58 for things like vocals I'm not sure how useful it is (except for maybe loud signals like drums). A SM58 is a bit more sensitive than a typical Broadcast mic like the SM7 but I think there are alot of more modern Dynamics that might be more sensitive than a SM58 that might work better. Alternatively most external preamps or Adat expansion preamps I would guess would have no trouble driving a SM58 with the exception of an extremly quiet voice.

I would need to check the specs of the Push 3, but from what I remember the Preamps didn't appear to be that powerful and I don't think they have phantom power either so I don't think a condenser would work (with exception of a condenser with an external power supply like on most tube condensers).

[jlgrimes]

So I'm confused about "dynamic" microphones and the push that doesn't supply phantom power. I thought if I bought a Shure SM58 which is dynamic (meaning doesn't require phantom power?) it would work with the push on High pre-amp. But it's pretty much inaudible. When I use my Focusrite and turn on phantom power it works! Am I missing something? Do ALL dynamic mics not require phantom power, or did I buy the one mic that does? Thanks! ^^;

EDIT: i forgot to mention every gain knob is maxed out, on the pre-amp and on the track

Looking at the specs, the Push 3 built-in mic preamps seems more of an afterthought (I'm thinking they probably were just focusing on being able to record electric guitars which it is probably fine as they have a stronger signal than a mic). The gain range is only 26 db. That said depending on the maximum input level already present this might not be that much of an issue but something like the Focusrite Scarlett has a 56 db gain range for comparison. Also the Push 3 doesn't contain a EIN spec, so chances are it probably is noisy if it isn't listed. Also the gain connections on the Push 3 are unbalanced so cable length might make a difference as well as you probably don't want to use anything over 10 feet or so.

That said it probably would be much better to use either an external preamp or a better dynamic (only a dynamic will work for the Push 3, or maybe an externally powered tube condenser as it doesn't even support phantom power). A cheap pa mixer might be all that is needed to boost the signal up as most basic mixers should have enough gain to drive an SM58 for vocals.

The Push 3 does have an extra 20 db of "Digital gain" but I'm not sure how much that would help as it would be ideal to use as you would most likely want to get the signal to a healthy level on the Analog side as the Digital wouldn't increase your SNR.

[[jur]]

input type selected correctly as High might mean "High Impedance" which would be for an Electric Guitar.

Nope, the "high" is for mics, it just means "higher level of input gain". There's an instrument setting for guitars.
The preamps are fine enough for a sm57/58, so if it's not for any of you that could be a HW issue and Support is the way to go.

[asperine]

Cannot place enough emphasis on the cable you’re using. the sm58 sends a balanced signal so the cable needs to go from xlr to trs jack (so not a mono jack!). I’m not overwhelmed by the volume also but the signal is decent and very clean so with some volume mixing and a compressor used to boost the volume it is fine. (and an eq to filter the low/mid that a love mic tends to produce more).
ed.: live mic I mean of course

[[jur]]

(and an eq to filter the low/mid that a love mic tends to produce more).

The proximity effect of love