Push 3 Velocity Spikes on the Bottom Row

[DanChristos]

Hi Everyone,

I recently bought a Push 3, immediately upon playing it I noticed velocity spikes on the bottom row while playing drums. I investigated further with MIDI Monitor and Expression Control and sure enough I was getting a very high occurrence of velocity spikes. I contacted support and after a bit of back and forth with videos etc I was told that there is a common issue with velocity on the outer ring which is going to be fixed in the upcoming beta release of the firmware. So I patiently waited for the release, installed it and what happened was the frequency of the spikes went down, but did not solve the problem. After another bit of back and forth with videos, support told me that the following update will fix the problem. So I patiently waited for the next beta update, installed it, and the same thing happened. The frequency of the spikes went down and the distance by which the spike deviated from what I actually played was reduced, but the issue still existed. You can see in the release notes (https://www.ableton.com/en/release-notes/live-11-beta/):
"Updated Push’s firmware to version 1.4.0. This addresses the following issues:
- An issue with audio distortions that occur when booting into higher sample rates.
- A problem with unexpected high velocity outliers on outer pads.
- An issue with Y jitter at the lower third of the bottom row of pads."

So again, after a bit of back and forth with videos, support forwarded me on to the warranty guys who issued me with a replacement. The replacement arrived today, I updated it to the firmware that ships with Live 11.3.13, and unfortunately this new device has the exact same issue. Updating this device to the latest Beta has the same effect as the previous one, the spikes are reduced, but are still present. To me, it seems like there is a common hardware issue that they are trying to compensate for in the firmware. My feeling is that many of you out there might be possibly having a similar issue, but I have not been able to find any mention of it on this forum.

Anyone else out there having, or faced, a similar issue? Were you able to find a solution, or is it still ongoing? If you're interested to see the videos I submitted to Ableton you can do so here in my Google Drive https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... drive_link

I'm feeling a bit frustrated, to be honest. I don't understand how such an expensive piece of equipment, which has been designed for precision, can ship with such a fault. Looking forward to hearing from the community about this.

[Just_Pierre]

Did some tests, but my Push 3 Standalone doesn't generate the velocity spikes. I tried multiple times but the velocity stays constant while tapping a pad with about the same strength. The results are the same for all used pads, top/middle/bottom.

btw....my Push 3 is running 1.1.20b7

[DanChristos]

I should have mentioned that I have the controller version, not standalone. The only way I can update the firmware is by downloading the beta version of Live (currently 11.3.20b7). I've been assured that the latest firmware is packaged with it, but after allowing Live to update Push, checking in the Push settings I see firmware version 1.0.73. I wonder if this has something to do with it.

[DanChristos]

Ok my bad, when I look in the Push3.log file it shows that the firmware version is in fact 11.3.20b7, firmware package version 1.4.0.

[Just_Pierre]

I see firmware 1.4.0 on my Push 3 Standalone, the same as yours.

In this version I don't see any velocity spikes.

[[jur]]

I never had this problem.

[Just_Pierre]

I never had this problem.

It looks like it was/is a known problem, but this is the first time I have heard about it.

''- A problem with unexpected high velocity outliers on outer pads.
- An issue with Y jitter at the lower third of the bottom row of pads."

[[jur]]

Yeah I know Just_Pierre, I was just adding my voice to the other ones not having this problem so we can all get a larger perspective on the HW side.

[DanChristos]

Since the latest beta update the spikes are fairly small (≅ ±20%), but very noticeable, especially since I set most of my instruments to a very high dynamic range.
It's interesting to note that the first one (which was replaced under warranty) and the second one (the replacement) both have exactly the same behaviour from factory, before and after the updates. The spikes were very frequent, and drastic (≅ ±60%).
Also, something that might be important, is that they both came from the same warehouse in Sydney within a fairly short period of time. The problem could exist in certain batches of production and not others.

[DanChristos]

I see firmware 1.4.0 on my Push 3 Standalone, the same as yours.

In this version I don't see any velocity spikes.

Were you seeing the issue before the update?

[Just_Pierre]

I see firmware 1.4.0 on my Push 3 Standalone, the same as yours.

In this version I don't see any velocity spikes.

Were you seeing the issue before the update?

To be honest, I never noticed this issue before. It's that you posted this and I tested it on my Push 3 Standalone.

[DanChristos]

So after even more back and forth with support, they are adamant that it is a software issue and not a hardware issue. They tell me that this is still a known issue and that they are still working on fixing it. They also told me that replacing the push will have no difference on the experience, that I will still notice the same. Which makes me wonder why no one else is experiencing this same problem?

It's incredibly frustrating because I work with quite high dynamic range, it's essential for the accuracy of velocity. Such an amazing piece of engineering, and yet the most basic feature is not working. It's horrible playing this thing as it is. They told me at some point in a previous response that the variation in velocity can be likened to the organic variations in an acoustic instrument. Complete fob off in my opinion. I mean, come on... seriously?? This is not organic variation, this is a faulty product.

Below is a copy of the most recent response from Ableton Support:
--
Hi Daniel,

Thanks for taking the time to share detailed feedback, we truly appreciate it.

As mentioned before, this issue is software related.

The investigations are ongoing and our development team is still working diligently on further improvements.
I can't offer you a timeline of when or if these improvements will be made, but once made, they will first be released in the beta version of Push's software.


Please bear in mind that, in this case, offering you a replacement for this Push 3 unit won't most likely make a difference.

[Just_Pierre]

@DanChristos Which software version? The regular or the latest beta?