A quick one-two on my experience with Ableton Live is that I have used it to record, mix, master, and for playing live with backing tracks and MIDI automation of hardware and MIDI automation of lights/fog machines/etc, etc, etc...
The issue that I have been having is with regard to the Roland TD-50X drum module. I would record my drums' audio and MIDI. I'd then review, edit the MIDI track to fix/adjust any issues I had with the performance, and then use the edited MIDI track to "retrigger" the drum module, and record the audio from there.
Everything worked great with Live 11 for a long time. I bought two copies of Ableton Live 11 so that I would have 4 licenses for my 3 computers, so that they'd all sync up whether I was upstairs, downstairs, or in the studio.
However... At some point, Ableton Live 11 received an update (MPE addition), and the cymbal "choke" MIDI signals didn't work anymore when the MIDI track was being used to "retrigger" the module.
Please read on, okay? I've had a very hard time getting anyone to take me seriously, and I've actually been blamed for this issue (which brings me to the very edge of being angry, but not quite there LOL). If you own a Roland TD-50 or TD-50X, you should take this very seriously. This is also a NUANCED issue, which apparently challenges the patience of many these days.
I'm going to list the issue, the bug searching that I have done for Ableton at their request during Support Ticket conversations, and what the outcome has been thus far. I'd like to do this here, in this Forum, because I have spent too many hours behind the scenes on Support Tickets, and nobody else was helped by the process.
Gear List:
Computer: Intel NUC, 12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-1260P 2.10 GHz / 64 GB RAM / 3 TB SSD (OS 1 TB, Storage 2 TB)
Drum kit: Roland TD-50KV2
Audio Interface: Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen
PLEASE TAKE NOTE: This issue does not happen with any other DAW. For example, I am now using Reaper to record due to this, and it is not an issue. I've also tried with with other DAWs, and the issue does not appear on them. And no, I don't work for Cockos... So please don't go there, conspiracy loons. Humans have landed on the moon, and there is a problem with Ableton Live 11 and 12. Face.
THE PROBLEM:
I record audio and MIDI track from Roland TD-50X simultaneously. I then use the MIDI track to retrigger the TD-50X and record the audio from that after any MIDI editing/fixes (if any are necessary). The problem is that now, the cymbals' "choke" feature no longer works. The live audio recording reflects the chokes just fine. Any subsequent audio tracks recorded while being "retriggered" by the MIDI track will no longer work properly. When retriggered, the cymbal chokes (on all cymbal pads) either will not show up at all (cymbals play as if open with no chokes registering at all), or it will play along and suddenly and randomly one of the MIDI cymbal choke signals will register with one of the pads on the TD-50X... but now ALL of the cymbals will be choked at all times for the rest of the performance (imagine hitting a cymbal while grabbing the edge of it, over and over, forever).
WHAT I HAVE DONE TO TRY TO FIX THE ISSUE (during support ticket sessions with Ableton):
- Created full Ableton projects with examples of the issue and shared them with Ableton Support in Ableton Support Ticket conversations
- Created full Reaper projects with examples of the same performance with the chokes working perfectly during Ableton Support Ticket conversations
- Mapped out entire MIDI event history lists (Ableton and Reaper) with highlights and arrows and pointers and notes and shared them with Ableton Support during Ableton Support Ticket conversations
- Recorded with MPE on (doesn't fix the issue, and now the hi-hat has no response)
- Recorded with MPE off (doesn't fix the issue, but at least now the hi-hat response is functional again)
- Factory reset my drum module (doesn't fix the issue)
- Went down the rabbit hole of setting parameters on my drum module in order to make it work properly with Ableton Live (it didn't fix it, and after hours and hours of looking at videos about MPE vs PFE vs whatever whatever conversion blah blah blah, I just opened another DAW and everything just worked without issue)
I am having the same issue with the Ableton Live 12 Beta as I did with Ableton Live 11 in terms of this very specific yet important issue: Roland TD-50X cymbal choke MIDI signals do not retrigger the module properly.
There is a bug in Ableton, period. I must admit, I have become a bit weary of being basically accused of being impatient or ignorant or inflexible (these are Logical Fallacies... Ad Hominem, in this case. If you call me fat or old or stupid, the fact persists that MIDI is not being interpreted/sent properly by Ableton, no matter how fat or old or stupid I may indeed be).
I have been receiving pushback from some users (hi there, Tobi), who basically seem to have the attitude that I am not doing something right, or that I have done something wrong, or I have not done enough, or that I need to dive into my module's settings and tweak tweak tweak away until things work. The thing is that I actually do not have to do that. I also don't appreciate being treated snydely and dismissively.
If this conversation is punted because "this is regarding AL 11 and not AL 12", I will never, ever buy another Ableton product. I also could not in good conscience advise anyone else to purchase it either, because at that point it would just be flat-out gaslighting, which is so incredibly offensive and annoying. This is totally about a problem from Ableton Live 11 carrying over into Ableton Live 12. I'm trying to help.
If anyone at Ableton would like to have access to an entire project that will show you the MIDI track, the original audio track, tracks recorded with MPE on/off, etc, etc, etc, you already have that information and those resources from me, available to you. just check your ticket history for my username. The problem here is that while I do like to help the community, I do not work for Ableton. I've also been tacitly accused of not doing enough work to help to fix this problem. I have a job (work) and a family and limited time to do unpaid troubleshooting for Ableton during this one life we get. I am not a Dev Team member. I am a customer/user.
Here are the facts. This issue did not exist in Ableton Live 11. Then it did. Now it's still there in the Ableton Live 12 Beta. And the problem does not exist with any other DAW that I have tried. Is anyone understanding that? It is ONLY a problem with Ableton. It is THAT SIMPLE.
As you can tell by the length an detail of this post, I have spent a long time trying to get Ableton to work with my module, haha!
What I have not received from anyone at Ableton is: Confirmation that they have tried this with a TD-50X and that they are seeing the problem as well, and that they will work on fixing it.
They really should have a Control Surface profile for the Roland TD-50X... but they don't. If someone took the time to actually use the hardware and figure out a profile for this with a TD-50X kit, they would see the problem and they would fix it.
I bought two full copies of Ableton Live 11 Suite. Why? Because I love Ableton Live. I love the interface, I love the diversity and power of control that it offers, and I love pretty much everything about it. So please don't tell me to basically F off and use another DAW. That's just rude and unproductive. Ableton is great. I bought two full licenses for many reasons. Then it broke.
I'm not swearing. I'm not screaming. I'm not including all-caps sentences that end in long lines of exclamation points. I haven't asked for a refund. I haven't asked for a free copy of 12. I haven't asked for pretty much anything... except HONESTY and EFFORT. Thus far, I have provided those two things in heaps. I haven't really gotten them back from anyone, including Ableton.
My entire decision regarding whether to buy Ableton Live 12 and whether to recommend it to anyone I know (which I have done and will continue to do as long as they don't own a Roland drum set) hinges on whether this issue (which is REAL, by the way) is fixed. It also hinges on whether the issue is looked at, confirmed, worked on, and fixed by Ableton.
Users are great, but they get distracted in forums posts so easily that the topic is usually gone within three replies. Influencers and YouTubers and those who make money from exploiting these situations can pretty much take a flying leap. They're gross.
Ableton needs to acknowledge and fix this issue. Because it is real. And because it is a problem with Ableton.
Thanks,