Hello guys, I have recently started music production, and for now I just want to make Japanese idol songs,
which is basically rock but with a lot of strings, some trumpets and sometimes synth keys.
For example :
Aqours - Aozora Jumping Heart : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9lUX6lkudw
LoveLive Idolmaster - Ijigen BigBang : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p7__uAHhdQ
Yuki Setsuna - Melody : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvVgqYSsQ2Y
after making 3 songs on Live Intro, I think 16 tracks just wouldn't do it, so I am considering upgrading,
but as I hear people say, Ableton is more suitable for electronic music,
so I am wondering if the 70+ GBs in Suite is really useful if I am to focus on this genre of music?
Or is it more reasonable to upgrade to Standard and spend the money on plugins?
(I don't think I would use Max for Live though)
Thanks for the help!!
Noob question : Standard or Suite?
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AbletonMASCHINE
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:27 am
Re: Noob question : Standard or Suite?
Hi, My short answer is Suite!
I had bought Standard and after few days I've upgraded to Suite.
Not because of the included sounds but because of its complete functionality including access to hundreds of small to big, free or paid powerful tools that have been created using Max.
https://maxforlive.com/
https://www.ableton.com/en/live/compare-editions/
I had bought Standard and after few days I've upgraded to Suite.
Not because of the included sounds but because of its complete functionality including access to hundreds of small to big, free or paid powerful tools that have been created using Max.
https://maxforlive.com/
https://www.ableton.com/en/live/compare-editions/
Re: Noob question : Standard or Suite?
I'm going to add my vote for Suite. Maybe.
I went through the same process as the previous poster, although I had starting with Intro, then upgrading to Standard. Within a few weeks of producing with Standard, I then upgraded to Suite. For the $255 Standard-to-Suite upgraded price, the massive content of additional packs, devices, presets, and more is just staggering, plus it opens up the world of some amazing Max for Live devices, many of which are free to Suite users.
For your specific type of Japanese idol pop-rock, I think you COULD produce that sort of music with Standard. I've produced some respectable lo-fi, tech house, nu-disco and modern dance pop, all with Standard. But if you look specifically at some of the packs, instruments, effects and more that come with Suite, you'll find it harder to get "stuck" trying to get a particular sound. For your particular styles, you might also appreciate all of the additional orchestral packs that come with Suite. Side note, all that additional Suite content is so much more manageable with Live 12's new tagged search capabilities, or AI-driven search for similar sounds.
Just in terms of synth options, with Suite you'll have seven additional instruments (not counting all the Max for Live devices that get opened up) including Wavetable, Meld and Operator, which I would consider extremely useful for your pop idol genre. Plus, as you know, Japanese idol music can get very complex in terms of sound design and there's a lot of genre-bending these days. If your goal is to produce more straight-ahead idol pop-rock like in your examples, Standard MIGHT work out fine for you, especially if you're feeling mostly stuck with the track count of Intro.
Unfortunately, the window for all the discounts is closing by March 5th. I had the luxury of longer time frames, working first with Intro, then upgrading to Standard before doing the final upgrade to Suite. If you're committed to Ableton Live as your DAW going forward, it might be worth it to bite the bullet NOW and get Suite. It will likely pay off both near term and down the road. With all of the capabilities, instruments, effects, packs and more in Suite, you will likely save a lot of money on third-party plugins later when you grow as a producer.
All that being said, if finances are an issue and if you're not yet an experienced producer, Standard may be all you need for a while as you get your bearings producing your music in Live. But even early in your journey, I would bet that right away you would start using Suite-level instruments such as Wavetable and Meld, as well as some content from the additional packs.
Sorry for not coming down too firmly on one or the other, but there is some nuance here and I mostly wanted to give you some food for thought.
Side note, I've been listening to a LOT of Japanese pop-rock-idol-metal of various flavors, although my tastes run a little heavier with groups like PassCode and Hanabie being some current favorites.
I really love what's going on with innovative music coming out of Japan.
I went through the same process as the previous poster, although I had starting with Intro, then upgrading to Standard. Within a few weeks of producing with Standard, I then upgraded to Suite. For the $255 Standard-to-Suite upgraded price, the massive content of additional packs, devices, presets, and more is just staggering, plus it opens up the world of some amazing Max for Live devices, many of which are free to Suite users.
For your specific type of Japanese idol pop-rock, I think you COULD produce that sort of music with Standard. I've produced some respectable lo-fi, tech house, nu-disco and modern dance pop, all with Standard. But if you look specifically at some of the packs, instruments, effects and more that come with Suite, you'll find it harder to get "stuck" trying to get a particular sound. For your particular styles, you might also appreciate all of the additional orchestral packs that come with Suite. Side note, all that additional Suite content is so much more manageable with Live 12's new tagged search capabilities, or AI-driven search for similar sounds.
Just in terms of synth options, with Suite you'll have seven additional instruments (not counting all the Max for Live devices that get opened up) including Wavetable, Meld and Operator, which I would consider extremely useful for your pop idol genre. Plus, as you know, Japanese idol music can get very complex in terms of sound design and there's a lot of genre-bending these days. If your goal is to produce more straight-ahead idol pop-rock like in your examples, Standard MIGHT work out fine for you, especially if you're feeling mostly stuck with the track count of Intro.
Unfortunately, the window for all the discounts is closing by March 5th. I had the luxury of longer time frames, working first with Intro, then upgrading to Standard before doing the final upgrade to Suite. If you're committed to Ableton Live as your DAW going forward, it might be worth it to bite the bullet NOW and get Suite. It will likely pay off both near term and down the road. With all of the capabilities, instruments, effects, packs and more in Suite, you will likely save a lot of money on third-party plugins later when you grow as a producer.
All that being said, if finances are an issue and if you're not yet an experienced producer, Standard may be all you need for a while as you get your bearings producing your music in Live. But even early in your journey, I would bet that right away you would start using Suite-level instruments such as Wavetable and Meld, as well as some content from the additional packs.
Sorry for not coming down too firmly on one or the other, but there is some nuance here and I mostly wanted to give you some food for thought.
Side note, I've been listening to a LOT of Japanese pop-rock-idol-metal of various flavors, although my tastes run a little heavier with groups like PassCode and Hanabie being some current favorites.
I really love what's going on with innovative music coming out of Japan.
Re: Noob question : Standard or Suite?
From your 3 examples, not knowing much about the artists and their favorite DAWs, I would say 99% can be produced with Suite only. No extra VST.
I would suggest to buy Suite now so you can get the 20% OFF and just chill until 12. No need to even install Suite 11 now, to then 'unlearn' it in a few days.
Just go day one with 12 Suite.
I would suggest to buy Suite now so you can get the 20% OFF and just chill until 12. No need to even install Suite 11 now, to then 'unlearn' it in a few days.
Just go day one with 12 Suite.
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Yearofthegoat
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:02 pm
Re: Noob question : Standard or Suite?
I bought Standard and added Max4Live.
I didn't need the synths or sample libraries in Suite, but I did want the add-ons that Max brings.
I didn't need the synths or sample libraries in Suite, but I did want the add-ons that Max brings.
Re: Noob question : Standard or Suite?
I think the best part about suite is that if you’re taking a look at some kind of tutorial based on Live, you should have all instruments and audio fx available. In Standard, a lot of them are Not available.
The extra packs, presets etc. all that stuff, is a nice perk. But the primary benefit of Suite is that you won’t be watching a video and suddenly realize you don’t have a particular audio effect or synth that they are demonstrating something with.
And to take it further, this also means you have more of those tools at your disposal in general. Then you just figure out what is still missing.
A nice thing is, if I’m not mistaken, Suite content from a previous version caries over to the next version. So 12 to 13 for instance. You’ll keep all your instruments and fx. The only things you won’t get when you go to 13 standard(distant years into the future) is added devices specific to 13, and some of the packs from 13. But you’ll have plenty from
12.
Also, sometimes during a version, Ableton release additional tools… and more often than not, these tools are always immediately available to Suite users.
The extra packs, presets etc. all that stuff, is a nice perk. But the primary benefit of Suite is that you won’t be watching a video and suddenly realize you don’t have a particular audio effect or synth that they are demonstrating something with.
And to take it further, this also means you have more of those tools at your disposal in general. Then you just figure out what is still missing.
A nice thing is, if I’m not mistaken, Suite content from a previous version caries over to the next version. So 12 to 13 for instance. You’ll keep all your instruments and fx. The only things you won’t get when you go to 13 standard(distant years into the future) is added devices specific to 13, and some of the packs from 13. But you’ll have plenty from
12.
Also, sometimes during a version, Ableton release additional tools… and more often than not, these tools are always immediately available to Suite users.
Re: Noob question : Standard or Suite?
I've noticed Wavetable in particular seems to figure heavily into a lot of third-party content, as does Serum ... but that's another topic.yur2die4 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:28 pmI think the best part about suite is that if you’re taking a look at some kind of tutorial based on Live, you should have all instruments and audio fx available. In Standard, a lot of them are Not available.
The extra packs, presets etc. all that stuff, is a nice perk. But the primary benefit of Suite is that you won’t be watching a video and suddenly realize you don’t have a particular audio effect or synth that they are demonstrating something with.
...