Live 11 Projects / Tracks In Live 12: GUI Lag and Extreme Load Times

[e.x.p.]

Is anyone else experiencing problems with Live 11 data in Live 12?

My Live 11 projects are unusable in 12. Opening any Live 11 project causes the GUI to lag when clicking anywhere in the timeline and when navigating tracks, especially to and from the Main track.

Fresh Live 12 projects like the stock templates and the Demo project do not lag, but when you drag a Live 11 .als or even an individual track from a Live 11 .als, the GUI lag is triggered and remains until the new track or tracks are removed. However, you must use the Undo function, as if you delete the Live 11 content the GUI lag will remain.

Also, load times when dragging in Live 11 .als projects and tracks are incredibly long. Undoing (Ctrl + Z) takes just as long to remove them as it does to add them.

I was able to recreate my Default template by dragging in the individual Device chains one by one. This does not trigger the GUI lag.

I came across another mention of this issue on Reddit, though the user was unable to find a solution to the problem. Here's the thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ableton/commen ... dio_clips/'

This is everything I've tried thus far:
Allowed Similarity Search Analysis to complete
Tried disabling Similarity Search Analysis
Toggled various preferences
Saved the project as a Live 12 set
Disabled Live Enhancement Suite
Killed Ableton Index from Task Manager
Windows -> Graphics Settings -> Ableton 12 Suite -> High Performance
Uninstalled and reinstalled Live 12

[e.x.p.]

Some Notes Following Further Testing

1: All of the same things happened when trying to open one of my Live 11 projects on a different computer that had never previously had a copy of Ableton installed.

2: The lag does not happen to all of my Live 11 projects, only those created after a certain date, somewhere around the middle of October 2022.

3: It takes 27 seconds to open the keybind screen after pressing ctrl + k. It takes another 27 seconds to close the keybind screen using ctrl + k.

4: If I drag an .als track into my Default template in Live 11 and save it as a rack (.adg), it will open in 12 without triggering lag. It can then be resaved as a .als in 12 without issue. The same is true of saving "bugged" .als tracks as clips in Live 11 before opening them in Live 12. It seems the GUI bug could be in some way related to the .als format.

Some other miscellaneous things I've tried:
Updated all plugins present in my Default template
Deleted all keybinds
Deleted all past versions of Live 11 except the most recent (11.3.13)
Tried adding an .als from outside the User Library
Uninstalled MAKID (project file organization software)

[[jur]]

Any M4L devices that are part of all your sets?
Do your machine specs fit the Live 12 minimum requirements?
Did you try "thrashing" (i.e moving to a safe place, just in case) your L12 Preferences.cfg (and maybe Library.cfg) file? Simply re-installing Live wouldn't automatically manage this so it's important to do it manually.

[e.x.p.]

My saving framework has a "Loops" project folder organized by month. Midway through October of 2022 is where the bug begins, at least for the Loops projects. "L27" was created on October 12, 2022. It opens in Live 12 without triggering the lag. The same is true of all the loops that came before it. The next loop, "L28" was created on October 18, 2022. This project and all loops following it cause the excessive load times and GUI lag in Live 12.

M4L: Comparing L27 to L28, they both contain the same M4L devices: Duck Buddy and LoadeR. Both of these devices are still used in my template today, among a handful of others.

Specs: Machine specs are solid.

Thrashing: I had not thought to try resetting my Preference and Library configs, but it had no impact.

It's difficult, if not impossible, to pinpoint whether a particular device is responsible for the bug because even if I open a bugged project in Live 11, delete every single track and device and keybind and save it as a new, single track, completely blank project; it still triggers the bug in Live 12. I took a blank stock template and recreated my Default template from scratch in Live 11. The rebuilt version works as it should in Live 12. The original Default template triggers the bug. This leads me to believe it's something inherent to my Default template that has been subsequently linked to every single .als file that has come from it since mid-October 2022.

Thank you for the suggestions!

[klangfeld]

I had the same problem, with Valhalla M4L wrappers... for VST plugins...
They are crashing all my Live12 projects

[e.x.p.]

The latest version of the Beta (12.0.5b1) no longer produces a delay when opening and closing the key map window, but things are otherwise unchanged. I'm still experiencing the same excessive load times when opening / dragging in the same range of projects. The GUI lag when clicking around the project is equally unchanged.