Ableton Live / M4L Crash Freezing since 11.3.10 when using observer API

Learn about building and using Max for Live devices.
MichaelAbletonForum
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:53 pm

Ableton Live / M4L Crash Freezing since 11.3.10 when using observer API

Post by MichaelAbletonForum » Wed Aug 23, 2023 1:34 pm

I've updated my live to 11.3.10 from 11.2 on my Windows 11 Workstation.

When closing Live it always crashes within seconds (unexpected error) and all resources were still blocked. Edit on M$L Dvices crashes the MAX App. So every time a restart is needed.

Now after many hours I've found one!! reproduceable error in one of the devices

If an observer in a chain is set to mute

Canonical path
live_set tracks N devices M chains L

Ableton live will crash on close, but the observer works well.

Any advise would help. Is there a common way to cancel the observe object.

[jur]
Site Admin
Posts: 5565
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Ableton

Re: Ableton Live / M4L Crash Freezing since 11.3.10 when using observer API

Post by [jur] » Wed Aug 23, 2023 3:38 pm

Might be because of the Max 8.5.5 bundled version. You can still use another external Max as a workaround.
Could you please report to Support?
Ableton Forum Moderator

MichaelAbletonForum
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:53 pm

Re: Ableton Live / M4L Crash Freezing since 11.3.10 when using observer API

Post by MichaelAbletonForum » Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:31 am

I found a second issue in the same LOM Path

muted_via _solo in a chain

Same behavior: Observer works but if you start M4L edit or close Ableton will freeze with blocking all resources

And it also affects the return_chain with the same properties: mute and muted_via_solo

About the version: Its not the 8.5.4 should be one bevor.

I have no experiences with running a different Max Version, and I'm little bit scared to do that. Does it also affect the factory M4L Devices?

In the meanwhile I gave up a lot of my projects are still crashing and i have to reboot the system to change a project. Then i have to edit the device with the MAX Standalone and try things (remove some functionality) go back and test -> crash -> restart and that in the loop.

But when I am the only one with this issue it could be that i doing things wrong. Could be that no one uses the chain via M4L ;-)

I will check it on a different workstation.

[jur]
Site Admin
Posts: 5565
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Ableton

Re: Ableton Live / M4L Crash Freezing since 11.3.10 when using observer API

Post by [jur] » Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:20 am

MichaelAbletonForum wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:31 am
I have no experiences with running a different Max Version, and I'm little bit scared to do that. Does it also affect the factory M4L Devices?
Nothing to worry about, it won't affect any device. It'll just use another Max version to run all the stuff.
Just download and install Max, then in Live's File Folder preferences you'll find an option to select an external Max build.
You can revert back anytime with a press of a button.
Ableton Forum Moderator

MichaelAbletonForum
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:53 pm

Re: Ableton Live / M4L Crash Freezing since 11.3.10 when using observer API

Post by MichaelAbletonForum » Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:29 pm

Ok, but then I have to manage multiple installations of MAX. I’ve read with renaming the current installation and then install another one. What a mess. Then I have to keep track which patcher is developed with which version and always start the related version. In some patchers I use new functions. It’s not only the installation. That’s all to much for a nonprofit/ hobby . It works the last years and makes fun, but I think I’m not ready for such additional tasks ;-)

And I know how long bugfixing takes for issues that only a few people have. years!

I’ve read via Java script it is possible to cancel the observer, set it to null. This could be a solution:

Press a button bevor closing Live and remove the observer.

How can I cancel an observer? I’ve searched a lot. Any advise?

MichaelAbletonForum
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:53 pm

Re: Ableton Live / M4L Crash Freezing since 11.3.10 when using observer API

Post by MichaelAbletonForum » Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:28 am

Results so far

setting the observer (mute and muted_via_solo) to id 0 will prevent Live crashing. M4L Edit via device still crashes (i dont know why)

But:

I've added a button on the device to set the observer to id 0, that works.

Then i tried to do it via freebang or closebang but the crash is faster. I also used some "tricks" closebang in the subpatcher, nothing works.

What is the earliest event that i can use within a patcher when M4L starts the closing event chain? Audio engine? GUI? Any adwise would be awesome. (Has to be push 3 standalone compatible, so no js)

MichaelAbletonForum
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:53 pm

Re: Ableton Live / M4L Crash Freezing since 11.3.10 when using observer API

Post by MichaelAbletonForum » Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:12 pm

So i found a workaround so that my devices work, not so elegant but it helps.

Bug is reported to the MAX Team.

[jur]
Site Admin
Posts: 5565
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Ableton

Re: Ableton Live / M4L Crash Freezing since 11.3.10 when using observer API

Post by [jur] » Tue Aug 29, 2023 5:54 pm

MichaelAbletonForum wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:12 pm
So i found a workaround so that my devices work, not so elegant but it helps.

Bug is reported to the MAX Team.
Pleas also report to Support! Thanks.
Ableton Forum Moderator

MichaelAbletonForum
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:53 pm

Re: Ableton Live / M4L Crash Freezing since 11.3.10 when using observer API

Post by MichaelAbletonForum » Wed Jan 17, 2024 7:52 am

Live still freezing with update 11.3.20.

MichaelAbletonForum
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:53 pm

Re: Ableton Live / M4L Crash Freezing since 11.3.10 when using observer API

Post by MichaelAbletonForum » Tue Mar 05, 2024 2:41 pm

Live 12 still crashing!!!

Only one m4l device used. Crash! Ableton said that they aware of this. Then: When you are not willing to resolve this bug. Remove it from your description! So bad, very bad!

MichaelAbletonForum
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:53 pm

Re: Ableton Live / M4L Crash Freezing since 11.3.10 when using observer API

Post by MichaelAbletonForum » Mon Jun 10, 2024 12:24 am

Live 12.0.5 still crashing. Same bad issues after crash. Computer restart needed.

Good that the Ableton Team and M4L team is "aware of this bug"

Rivanni
Posts: 507
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: Ableton Live / M4L Crash Freezing since 11.3.10 when using observer API

Post by Rivanni » Mon Jun 10, 2024 2:31 pm

Can you paste the compressed code (of the part) of your device that is causing the crashes?

MichaelAbletonForum
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:53 pm

Re: Ableton Live / M4L Crash Freezing since 11.3.10 when using observer API

Post by MichaelAbletonForum » Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:09 am

Posting the code would not help. The code is from official device template and very straight forward only Using the observer. The context is the difference if you use the these observer on a track it works on a chain it crashes. The Ableton and M4L team received all needed files with my reporting and they writes they know that.
But if you want I can give you my test project. It’s only a 2!Track 1 device project. Via OneDrive / email? like you want.

Rivanni
Posts: 507
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: Ableton Live / M4L Crash Freezing since 11.3.10 when using observer API

Post by Rivanni » Tue Jun 11, 2024 1:15 pm

MichaelAbletonForum wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:09 am
But if you want I can give you my test project. It’s only a 2!Track 1 device project. Via OneDrive / email? like you want.
Yes. You can paste the link to the file in your dropbox here (or send me a private message).

chapelier fou
Posts: 6078
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: Ableton Live / M4L Crash Freezing since 11.3.10 when using observer API

Post by chapelier fou » Wed Jun 12, 2024 12:01 pm

Thanks for PMing the set.
It does crash on close, indeed. That's a serious issue.
I'll try to reduce the problem to the smallest patch possible and pass it to support.
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
MacStudio M1Max 32Go OS 12.3.1

Post Reply