Where is Live headed?

Rhythm N. Beatz · Post by **Rhythm N. Beatz** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 11:22 pm

I read a response by someone from Ableton that SDII would be implemented. Cool. I searched the forum but can't find all the answers I'm looking for like..
Is there going to be audiounits support for instruments and FX?
Is there going to be TDM support?
Is internal audio/sample editing in Live's future or is it the philosophy that it is easy enought to do outside Live?
What about midi recording and editing, at least for drum parts?

Is Live more likely to stay a loop tool or incorporate more midi and plugins as used in sequencers and become a complete tool for a new type of virtual studio?

Post by **Alex** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 12:21 am

Hi Rhythm N. Beatz,

for now I can confirm that SDII import will come really soon.

In general I would say some the other things you mentioned will be in Live someday but also we don't know yet how and when.

Is Live more likely to stay a loop tool or incorporate more midi and plugins as used in sequencers and become a complete tool for a new type of virtual studio?

Not easy to answer. We always have to find a between what we think what Live should have and what the Live users wants to have in Live. I think the separation between a live tool and a studio tool is mainly relevant for the user interface. And what works on stage should also works in the studio. Mainly our specification guys (Gerhard, Robert, Stefan) are always trying to find simplifications in the user interface. We have a lot of discussions like "Is this button really needed?", Who need this ...?". So to answer you question we'll always keep in mind that Live must be able to work with on stage. But the functionality will increase in the course of time. The bigger question is which feature gets which priority. Hope this is at least a small answer to your question :)

regards,
Alex

Rhythm N. Beatz · Post by **Rhythm N. Beatz** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:31 am

Thanks Alex, your answer does help. Being a writer/producer who mostly uses logic, I like the idea of a tool that I can play live and play things that I could never before play in real time before. The only difference is I want to play things in real time to record. Instead of arranging with a mouse or a control serface, the idea of being able to try arrangements and experiment in other ways with my hands on a keyboard or one hand on a keyboard and another on a control surface that alows me to tweek paramaters Live already has would be revolutionary for me.

What would be cool for my interest would be to render a song track by track that could be easily imported into ProTools for mixing.

As soon as Live supports AudioUnits or or becomes a front end for ProTools, preferably both, I'm in.

Thanks

quickie · Post by **quickie** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 1:46 pm

There is as much chance of Live becoming a front end for Protools as you becoming the first man on Mars. The amount of work involved for ableton to support DAE/TDM is way beyond their abilities at this present time and I reckon for the foreseeable future.

Rhythm N. Beatz · Post by **Rhythm N. Beatz** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 3:53 pm

quickie wrote:There is as much chance of Live becoming a front end for Protools as you becoming the first man on Mars. The amount of work involved for ableton to support DAE/TDM is way beyond their abilities at this present time and I reckon for the foreseeable future.

Based on Ableton's reponse, they seem most interested in adding to Live features for user's who want to play it live. I think that's great because I want it to be as playable as possible. IMO there is a bigger market in users who play in the studio than on the stage. Me being the former as a writer/producer who can actually play the keyboards I'm interested in PLAYING it in the studio.

As far as PT is concerned, I thought on OSX that CoreAudio would make it easier to support things like DAE. I don't think it hurts to ask them directly. Sooner or later someone will put Live features into a frontend to most DAWs and certanly the most popular DAW.

IMO, Live has let the cat(new way of playing software) out of the bag. I contacted emagic and they seem to be anoid at how many request they are getting for Live like features so I think they know there is a market for those features in their products. So the question I think is, will the traditional sequencer makers give users the Live features we need or will Ableton give users the audio and midi features we need? I'm routing for Ableton but I'm kind of an underdog router anyway. Unfortunatly, sometimes the creator of something new, like when Opcode put audio and midi in the same application, doesn't survive to reap the rewards.

manparrish · Post by **manparrish** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 3:12 am

I've heard "rumors" that Live will be incorporated ( sold to ? ) Steinberg, for future release or as a feature of...Cubase. Any info supporting that ?

Thanx,

Man Parrish - Producer / Artist / Legend

Rhythm N. Beatz · Post by **Rhythm N. Beatz** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:45 pm

As a Logic User that would suck.

jamief · Post by **jamief** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 8:21 pm

It would be nice if live had a two fold operation perspective.
All m,usicand i knowe have to first create audio loops and clips then after this its is possible to go out playing live.
In consequence
1. stage slightly deeper prog with midi and Vsti/Au
2. stage slimmed down version of live we all know and love.
i,m not suggesting two differnt progs here but the same prog with the ability to remain simple and streamlined for the live arena and the ability to become aserious midi/audio studio creative audio creator.
I sequence about 95% of my audio in live these days because its so intuitive. Cubase vst 32 is my front end (os 9) and gives me external midi and VSTis hosting abilities so i am already running this concept. Live 1.5 is rewire slaved.
I get alot of work done very quickly and my production skills have gone up exponentionally since adopting this method. It is creatively fluid and aimed solely for studio creation. I still go out playing Live with Just Live !

best

Rhythm N. Beatz · Post by **Rhythm N. Beatz** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:16 pm

exactly, you said it better than me.

oink · Post by **oink** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 12:24 pm

I don't know that Live would be served all that well by just becoming another DAW. Too many compromises, too many features to be nurtured.
In Logic, I have a strong interest in the MIDI Environment, but I can tell, by what has and hasn't been done in the last years, that the amount of attention that side is getting has been pretty low. It's not broke, but it could do with a little progress. If Live included everything people were asking for, i think some areas would suffer just the same.
It's good that it's primary function is an instrument. It's also good it has such extensive sequencing features. I think it's more a replacement for your Triton than your ProTools. But that sells it short. as it not a direct replacement for either.
I'm just running 2.1b rewired to Logic with a MIDI return through MIDI Pipe [yes OSX].
This combo is rather nice, and all I can wish for, right now, is that there was some simple way to export all the plugin settings from the disabled VSTs to Logic. Beyond that, envelopes to slot clips would be a biggie, MIDI control of pitch, and, maybe, a way to create velocity layers for slots.
Oh and to be able to edit MIDI assignments by a text-entry field.

I suppose what I am saying is I'd like to see more sampler-like features, mainly.

jamief · Post by **jamief** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 12:36 pm

oink wrote:I don't know that Live would be served all that well by just becoming another DAW. Too many compromises, too many features to be nurtured.
In Logic, I have a strong interest in the MIDI Environment, but I can tell, by what has and hasn't been done in the last years, that the amount of attention that side is getting has been pretty low. It's not broke, but it could do with a little progress. If Live included everything people were asking for, i think some areas would suffer just the same.
It's good that it's primary function is an instrument. It's also good it has such extensive sequencing features. I think it's more a replacement for your Triton than your ProTools. But that sells it short. as it not a direct replacement for either.
I'm just running 2.1b rewired to Logic with a MIDI return through MIDI Pipe [yes OSX].
This combo is rather nice, and all I can wish for, right now, is that there was some simple way to export all the plugin settings from the disabled VSTs to Logic. Beyond that, envelopes to slot clips would be a biggie, MIDI control of pitch, and, maybe, a way to create velocity layers for slots.
Oh and to be able to edit MIDI assignments by a text-entry field.

I suppose what I am saying is I'd like to see more sampler-like features, mainly.

Envelopes ADSR to clips would be heaven !

Try setting your logic audio folder to record all audio parts to the Ableton Live ( self contained folder) song folder. Thatway when you export Vstis or record acoustics with logic as your front end the files are quickly and easily available both to live and logic from one folder. Its a fluid way of working and keeps workflow spontanous.

stevont · Post by **stevont** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 10:30 pm

manparrish wrote:I've heard "rumors" that Live will be incorporated ( sold to ? ) Steinberg, for future release or as a feature of...Cubase. Any info supporting that ?

Thanx,

Man Parrish - Producer / Artist / Legend

RE: Steinberg & Cubase

I’m not sure if this rumor has any merit but let me just make this plea.

Please do NOT get in bed with Steinberg!!! I’m not sure how it happened but the leadership at Steinberg has been infected by the "follow Digidesign" bug.

They discontinued Cubase and shifted their focus on Nuendo in an attempt to make themselves more appealing to the protools herd. What they are trying to pass off as Cubase right now is nothing more than code hacked from Nuendo in a feeble attempt to distract people from the fact that they had just discontinued the most innovative, creative and potent MUSIC MAKING application around.

AN OPPORTUNITY:

I think Ableton should build a Rewire "Host" sequencer application, which would contain more standard midi & audio features. That way the programmers could stay more focused and the code could remain autonomous. It would also open up many more options for potential customers. Rewire technology has blown a huge hole in the "all in one box" mentality that has bloated so many DAWs.

If you look at the feature set of the "classic" Cubase VST program for inspiration which Steinberg has abandoned for the sake of copying Digidesigns PT model (see Nuendo & Cubase SX) You will take over the universe.

you heard it here first...

s

oink · Post by **oink** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:35 am

jamief wrote: Try setting your logic audio folder to record all audio parts to the Ableton Live ( self contained folder) song folder.

Thanks for the tip. That's a damn good idea.

Beatworld · Post by **Beatworld** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:52 am

manparrish wrote:I've heard "rumors" that Live will be incorporated ( sold to ? ) Steinberg, for future release or as a feature of...Cubase. Any info supporting that ?

Thanx,

Man Parrish - Producer / Artist / Legend

Thats a very depressing/distressing "rumour".
I am a long time Mac Cubase VST user who has only just discovered Live.
Steinberg's efforts with SX/Mac are poor at best and are well documented on the Cubase.net user forum.
After using the demo of Live for 2 weeks I ordered the program yesterday. I'm really excited by it.......I reckon I should be happy for at least 12-18 months now with the combo of VST Cubase (5.2pb), Live,ReBirth, MOTU 2408, TC Powercore, OS 9.2.2 etc etc......

Please Ableton.......don't do it !!

monolake. · Post by **monolake.** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:07 pm

Hello.

We are still an independent company and Steinberg did not buy us.
Nor did Apple or Micorsoft or Siemens or who so ever.

Ableton is simpy Ableton.

Actually Steinberg has been bought by Pinnacle recently. I am not sure if they could buy us now even if they or we would want it...

Cheers, Robert / Ableton

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