Issue w/ Sending Program Changes to hardware

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DPitre
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:37 pm

Issue w/ Sending Program Changes to hardware

Post by DPitre » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:37 pm

Hi there –

I'm having an issue with sending Program Changes to my external hardware synth (Prophet REV2) in a particular scenario, which is as follows...

If I have, let's say three (empty) MIDI clips, each with different Pgm Change settings, all in the same MIDI track (which is sending MIDI to the REV2), it behaves as one would expect .... in that I can cycle through the three clips (in any order) as many times as I'd like and the REV2 accepts the program changes..

The issue is when I separate these three clips out into their own track (so three tracks total). Once I've engaged (and sent pgm change data to the REV2) each clip once, which works fine, the REV2 stops responding to these pgm changes, one matter how many more times I engage the clips. So to be clear, after I engage each clip one time, the REV2 stops accepting the pgm changes.

This latter method (separate tracks) is what I need to use for a particular Set. To test if it was a synth issue I make a quick and dirty M4L device to send the pgm changes. When I place three instances of this M4L device into three separate MIDI tracks and use a blank MIDI clip with envelope modulation (to engage the M4L device), the REV2 accepts the pgm change no matter how many times I clycle through these three tracks.

I'd like to go the "clean" route of using Live's pgm change feature in a MIDI clip, instead of a M4L device.

Anyone have this issue before? Can you recreate the issue I'm explaining above? Any help is appreciated.

Cheers

scheffkoch
Posts: 596
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Issue w/ Sending Program Changes to hardware

Post by scheffkoch » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:39 pm

...i know this is not what you're asking for but i have zero problems with this m4l device for program changes...might be worth a try: http://maxforlive.com/library/index.php ... sh+program
macbook pro m1pro, macos monterey, rme multiface via sonnet echo express se I, push 2, faderfox mx12, xone:k2

DPitre
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:37 pm

Re: Issue w/ Sending Program Changes to hardware

Post by DPitre » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:39 pm

scheffkoch wrote:...i know this is not what you're asking for but i have zero problems with this m4l device for program changes...might be worth a try: http://maxforlive.com/library/index.php ... sh+program
Thanks for the suggestion, scheffkoch. If I can't solve this problem I'll build something like this. Although this option wroks, it does add some "latency" to the mix. Would love to have the actual MIDI clip (with musical data in it) have the pgm changes on it, therefor the timing is all correct.

We'll see if anyone else chimes in.

Cheers

zayka.music
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:19 pm

Re: Issue w/ Sending Program Changes to hardware

Post by zayka.music » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:20 pm

Hi !

I have exactly the same problem.
I solve it with midi clip with nothing in it between the midi clip with the midi notes and PGM changes.

Weird.

Did you find another solution ?

Friendly,

Martin

Monolounge
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2024 1:32 am

SOLUTION Re: Issue w/ Sending Program Changes to hardware

Post by Monolounge » Mon Nov 11, 2024 1:54 am

It seems as though Live is trying to avoid transmitting the same program change message more than once. Eg. if there are two consecutive midi clips that launch with patch 1-1-1 it will only send the program change when the playhead passes the first clip. It seems however that there are a few issues in the way this is handled. I've found issues sending patch changes from multiple midi tracks as well as issues when jumping to new clips using locators in the arrangement view.

It's somewhat understandable that live would try to avoid sending the same program change twice, but it would be much better to leave that decision to the user. I'd love to see program changes transmitted whenever a clip is launched as that is the expected behaviour.

Solution:

Place a blank midi clip just before a clip with a program change to reset Live's handling of program changes. The blank clip can infinitely small and contain no program change data and it will still kickstart Live into sending the expected program change.

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