Any chance of getting the old browser categories back?

[Hokuspokus]

You guys can claim all you want that this is not a push to move to push, but it absolutely is. Otherwise, you would have left a classic interface as an option. And don't tell me there was no way you could do that, you only could move forward with this. That's a BS excuse. It may have taken a little time but you definitely could do it and if not you need to hire developers that can handle that job. You could, and should, still go back and add that as an option. It's not like you don't have the code from 11 that couldn't be adapted and integrated. This wasn't an addition to an existing browser that people were greatly familiar with and really didn't have complaints about. This was a complete wipeout of your existing browser and a forced move to something that a significant portion of your user base absolutely abhors.

It's not that we're having trouble getting used to it, it's that we don't like it. It is completely not functional for a lot of us and unusable in our existing

I know how frustrating software can be when workflows are wonky, not as expected, do not make sense or when basic features or great workflow improvements are missing. Also I understand that it can be frustrating when workflows and built up systems (e.g. folder structures) need to get adapted to a new UI behavior.
Though, a better browser has been requested over years. For Live 11 the issue (demanding a tagging system etc.) is ranked no. 14 (out of over 4k suggestions) on centercode. Also, I don't think that the Ableton Team has the hidden agenda to make ones live more cumbersome but that they actaully want to improve the software (also when sometimes it can take ages/won't happen at all for features to get implemented or it won't make everyone happy).
Maybe there are points for improvement on the current Live 12 browsing system. Maybe there are (hidden) workarounds. Maybe it breaks some workflows/structures (mine improved drastically instead). And of course that makes angry.

You have (or had, don't know) the chance here to write with one of the Ableton guys directly (what is really rare nowadays..) who is supportive, interested in your workflows and your thoughts about the browsing system and who seems to be interested in improving it further. I rather would use the chance to have a (maybe fruitful) constructive, calm and friendly discussion, instead of drifting to accusations, insults, yelling and telling Ableton what to or not to do. Don't get me wrong, I understand you. But if I was an Ableton dev./PM/whatever, don't know if I still would like to post here/take part in this discussion when it drifts off to an argument/impolite texting.

Also, please don't take my post personally. Just know it from myself that, when I am angry/emotional, I fast can write something which tends to sound a bit aggressive and where I later think maybe one or two levels lower would have been sufficient. Hope you can find a way to work with the browsing system and that it will improve for you

[Hokuspokus]

I can't add much to what "qub" has already said; this new browser is just such a bad joke, and the tagging system is just as useless for organized producers. Anyone who structures their samples neatly in Live and generally on the computer not only doesn’t benefit from the new browser, but is seriously hindered by it. And to say, "we can't bring the old browser back" is such a weak excuse — it almost sounds like something Native Instruments would say.

If I have "own" samples etc. I put them in the User Library. And this one (if I would like to) I still can access/browse and organize hirarchically. Or do I miss something?

[Hokuspokus]

To get a bit the old feeling/workflow back. What would be e.g. when there is the option to:
- Place one filter category (e.g. Devices) vertically (between the main categories (All, Sounds, Drums ...) and the Filter/file window.
- With one tag in each line
- Arrow keys for jumping left to right, scrolling and selecting samples/open sub filter etc.
- For each main category the user is able to chose another filter category which shall be shown vertically

[benmuetsch]

Thanks, Hokuspokus! As I mentioned, my focus isn’t so much on the samples themselves (I discussed that with Qub) but more on the devices.

I’m a bit wary of customizing a DAW too extensively, given the risk that one day I might need to reinstall everything unexpectedly, which could mean losing a lot of work. I prefer a workflow that works well straight out of the box.

For devices, I stick to my user library and specific packs, as well as the core library, which I can browse in a way that suits my preferences. This way now helps me to find what’s most useful for my needs. One feature that would be fantastic is the ability to hide the filters and tags buttons entirely—is that possible already?

[Hokuspokus]

I’m a bit wary of customizing a DAW too extensively, given the risk that one day I might need to reinstall everything unexpectedly, which could mean losing a lot of work. I prefer a workflow that works well straight out of the box.

I guess, this often also is kinda Abletons design philosophiy what can be boon and bane.. As less options/customization possibilites also can mean more unhappy users (e.g. due to restricted workflows) or more clashing point of views as we can see on this topic. Not expecting Reaper but personally I'd favor a bit more customization possibilites and workflow additions. But that's another topic..


Just thinking loud on the idea with one vertical filter category: one even could design it this way that in this vertical section the filter you select also automatically is being applied. And when you scroll up/down the next one is applied and the one beforehand is removed again. This way you could scroll through the list the same way as in Live 11 (without the need to hit enter to activate the filter). And then, taking the example of the Device filter category, the actual devices (from this category) are not below the tag but on the right section (which you again can reach with a single key press on the right arrow).


Another idea which is possibly easy to implement is, to give users the ability to add the Core Library as a folder below the Packs and User Library (Just tried it out and currently, it seems, it's not possible). Not everything is sorted there in folders (e.g. the Audio Effects). But e.g. the Operator Instrument still has its presets sorted in folders like Bass, Brass, Synth Keys etc.

Or just copy the whole Core Library over to the User Library where everything can be arranged hirarchically. Quite some redundancy then but this way user presets etc. can be added as well to the same structure.

Just brainstorming

[benmuetsch]

I really like your brainstorming, any ideas are very welcome!

For now, I'll browse like this:

- Samples are completely organized by myself so here I don't apply any filters. I sometimes use the similarity search though, great feature!
- Instruments: mainly thorugh the "Core Library", specific Packs I like, User Library (user presets) and with occasional use of the Filter section (though rarely)
- Devices and Effects mostly via new browser and filters, there it somehow feels a bit more intuitive
- personal color-tagged collections

[benmuetsch]

To end on a positive note: I discovered the 'Full Height Browser' function, and it really alleviates or drastically reduces the issues. If there is enough space on the left side, it’s fine to work with the filters.

And to find my own presets, I simply added the relevant folders to a collection, which makes it much more pleasant to work again.