why audio speeds up on the 1st TAP tempo entry?

Post by **Alex** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:29 pm

Hi folks,

this is very probably related to the fact that the TAP button can be used to tap a tempo and/or to shift the phase.

However, we will look into this.

regards,
/Alex

olivierseb · Post by **olivierseb** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:20 pm

no_barcode wrote:
olivierseb wrote:On my setup I get a long (maybe alf a second)and very obvious pitch change, it could be upper or lower on the same audio loop.
I see what you mean now.

Yes, I would say that is a bug.

The BPM indicator doesn't change but the pitch does for a second. (for me, anyway...)

yes and I say it is a bug because, how Live could guess the tempo if you hit TAP once?
A tempo need 2 hits at least to be definied.
Or if it is a relative change applied to the actual tempo, this should'nt create such audio artefact.

Could someone from Ableton state on this?
maybe there is a use I don't see of the TAP tempo.

Olivier

no_barcode · Post by **no_barcode** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:25 pm

olivierseb wrote:...Could someone from Ableton state on this?
maybe there is a use I don't see of the TAP tempo.

Olivier

Alex replied above -- he said they'll look into it.

Post by **Alex** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:28 pm

Hi olivierseb,

Could someone from Ableton state on this?
maybe there is a use I don't see of the TAP tempo.

It is as I already guessed. The first TAP is already used to set the phase which again is realized by a short increase of the tempo similar to the temporarily speed incrementation of a turntable.

regards,
/Alex

olivierseb · Post by **olivierseb** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:01 pm

Alex wrote:Hi olivierseb,

Could someone from Ableton state on this?
maybe there is a use I don't see of the TAP tempo.
It is as I already guessed. The first TAP is already used to set the phase which again is realized by a short increase of the tempo similar to the temporarily speed incrementation of a turntable.

regards,
/Alex

Hello Alex
Thanks for your very quick quick answer.

I am sorry but I don't understand your explanation.
Could you please be more precise or give us a link to a thread covering this issue before?
what phase are you talking about?
Is this turntable effect really desired by "you"or just a side effect you kept because turntables act like this?

I am sorry to ask always more questions but I really need to understand.
I hope I am not too offensive, I just want to clarify THEN ask or not for an enhencement of Live.
I will take only one very simple and casual situation:

you play with a drummer, before starting live you get his tempo with TAP tempo, Ok, no trouble because live is stopped.
Then you run Live in sync with the drummer, everything is ok.
After a while because the drummer speed up or slow down, you have to keep Live in sync;
Tapping the the tempo while Live plays should be possible, no?
Actualy this is not possible because of this sudden turntable acceleration.

I could understand a technical reason why Live can't do that without artefact.
Though all of the drum machines I own (electribe ER1/ ES1) can do that perfectly.

Thanks for your help Alex

Olivier

Post by **Alex** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:33 pm

olivierseb,

Could you please be more precise or give us a link to a thread covering this issue before?
what phase are you talking about?

"Phase" means to get Live in sync to the beat position, so that beat 1 from the drummer is in sync to beat 1 from Live.

However, I said we will look into this and that is what we do. As I'm not much into the working of TAP tempo my teammate Eduard will take care of this issue as soon as he is recovered from a little cold.
Just have a bit patience please.

regards,
/Alex

no_barcode · Post by **no_barcode** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:47 pm

Alex wrote:olivierseb,

Could you please be more precise or give us a link to a thread covering this issue before?
what phase are you talking about?
"Phase" means to get Live in sync to the beat position, so that beat 1 from the drummer is in sync to beat 1 from Live.

However, I said we will look into this and that is what we do. As I'm not much into the working of TAP tempo my teammate Eduard will take care of this issue as soon as he is recovered from a little cold.
Just have a bit patience please.

regards,
/Alex

Interesting...

Sounds like Live quickly speeds up or slows down the tempo on the first tap, so that the first tap lands on the first beat of the next bar, and tap number two is always on beat two -- regardless of where you're at in the clip when you start tapping.

I'm going to try it when I get home.

olivierseb · Post by **olivierseb** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:56 pm

Alex wrote:olivierseb,

Could you please be more precise or give us a link to a thread covering this issue before?
what phase are you talking about?
"Phase" means to get Live in sync to the beat position, so that beat 1 from the drummer is in sync to beat 1 from Live.

However, I said we will look into this and that is what we do. As I'm not much into the working of TAP tempo my teammate Eduard will take care of this issue as soon as he is recovered from a little cold.
Just have a bit patience please.

regards,
/Alex

OK now it understand , tap tempo doesn't only guess the new tempo then apply , it taked the 1st Tap as the beginning of measure.
right?

Alex, I am very sorry but I didn't see your first answer that's why I kept asking for a statement and so on.
Sorry about this.

Thanks a again for you help and my best wishes to Eduard.

Friendly

Olivier

olivierseb · Post by **olivierseb** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:03 pm

no_barcode wrote:
Alex wrote:olivierseb,

[Sounds like Live quickly speeds up or slows down the tempo on the first tap, so that the first tap lands on the first beat of the next bar, and tap number two is always on beat two -- regardless of where you're at in the clip when you start tapping.

I'm going to try it when I get home.

Yes Barcode, all this story makes sense now, though I am not sure it is the best behaviour for live perfomances with other musicians.
But it could be very helpfull for other uses maybe, like a DJ monitoring the source on wich he will land after synchronizing.
I guess this is the idea behind the actual behaviour.

Maybe it is time for an alternative behaviour, The debat is open...

well, I hope so

Olivier

Eduard · Post by **Eduard** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:47 pm

olivierseb wrote: OK now it understand , tap tempo doesn't only guess the new tempo then apply , it taked the 1st Tap as the beginning of measure.
right?

Exactly. But maybe this is a little bit too much, too complicated...

Lets see if we can improve this, either with wither an option to disable the phase shifting behaviour, or by making it available via some extra controls next to the TAP button.

olivierseb · Post by **olivierseb** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:57 pm

Eduard wrote:
olivierseb wrote: OK now it understand , tap tempo doesn't only guess the new tempo then apply , it taked the 1st Tap as the beginning of measure.
right?
Exactly. But maybe this is a little bit too much, too complicated...

Lets see if we can improve this, either with wither an option to disable the phase shifting behaviour, or by making it available via some extra controls next to the TAP button.

Hello Eduard,
Happy to see you back

Yes I agree at 100% with you.
this should be an option because some may need the "1st beat feature" and other a soft tempo chnage.

Thank you for your supprort.

Olivier