new intel imac + live 5.03 tested

Geraldo · Post by **Geraldo** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:51 am

This news kind of cheers me up. I was feeling bummed hearing that the Intel imac was twice as fast as the iMac I just bought 6 months ago. My current iMac does a great job with Live with plenty of CPU head room. I'll wait a year for the bugs to be worked out and then maybe it'll be time for a new Macbook. No worries.

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:54 am

kenn michael wrote:
dave999z wrote:
LOFA wrote:Another thing that will piss me off is if Logic miraculously gets released as a universal binary early, probably the day the intel towers are announced. I know Apple made intel machines available to developers, but the big advantage Apple has is it knows exactly when all the intel machines will be released, price points, etc (i.e., when the user base will actually transition). There is something anticompetitive about that. Can't fault Ableton for not allocating its limited programming resources to getting a universal binary ready by today so the one person with an intel mac can run live. The moving target that is OS X is kind of ridiculous. Developer tweaks an app to get it to run on 10.x.9, then Apple releases 10.y.1, which breaks all software (except Logic is updated that same day to keep working). It's crap I say. Crap!

OK I'm done venting. It's just another frustrating Apple transition. At least maybe this time it will lead to affordable machines that perform.

Arrgghhh!

Dave
All devs had the opportunity to buy (or rent really) an Intel dev kit for $999 last year. They've been asked to send those dev kits back now but supposedly receive a free Intel Mac as a replacement. I'm sure the Abes have one (or had).

Universal Binary Logic (along with the rest of the Apple pro apps) is being released by the end of March. Apple as a software company HAS to have their software ready pretty quick for any new hardware they may be releasing. It only makes sense for them as a company. It's not anticompetitive. Their just putting their resources there to keep the 'unified' Apple experience going.

I don't think its an issue of Logic miraculously being released on the same day as the towers, etc because they have secret knowledge that Ableton doesn't. Apple actually made some specific hints to devs about getting their binaries done. I remember seeing one at the beginning of December that sorta went...

"Have your Universal Binaries ready NOW!!!"

If that's not a hint that the new macs might be coming sooner than later, I don't know what is.

Also remember that all these developers have different priorities when it comes to their own internal schedules and upcoming updates. Ableton has to now code for 3 platforms - Windows, OSX PPC, and OSX Intel. Not to say that the Intel Binary is not important for them (I'm sure it is) but they only have so many programmers, and they also have to keep up normal development of Live (fixing bugs, listening to suggestions from users, etc.). I don't think Logic has any more of an advantage other than their not programming for Windows, so they have only OSX to worry about all day. Logic 7 was released in Sept of 2004, and 7.1 sometime last year? It seems that they're spending a lot of time working on things maybe we can't see yet - Universal Binaries? Maybe more under the hood... Where Ableton has had steady releases where you can see a very clear track of development.

Again, it's all about each individual developers' internal timetable. I'm not a developer myself, but I like to frequent the Apple developer forums, and watch their developer keynotes. Apple and OSX is definitely a moving target, which sucks on one hand, but ultimately some very cool things come out of it.

There should definitely be a lot of answers at NAMM.

Hi Kenn, My name is not actually Dave. In fact I didn't even write that. I was misquoted. WHo is Dave any way? My name is Hal, I mean Ian.

henry ford · Post by **henry ford** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:00 am

dave makes some excellent points.

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:18 am

henry ford wrote:dave makes some excellent points.

Yeah, he sure does! He sure sets an example for the rest of us.

Post by **Alex** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:15 am

Hi folks,

1)
I like this thread!

2)
bizack

Regarding the quote by Robert, that has to be some of the biggest bunch of bullshit. How well did they really test altivec code? As well as the beta and release version of Live 5? Why do all other programs that make use of vector processing significantly benefit from altivec optimization? Pure laziness. They probably goofed around for a few days and just said 'oh screw it, this takes too much time.' It's just laziness. Having to maintain two code bases for a $500 product? My God, I can't imagine having to maintain two code bases, like every single other company that makes Windows and OS X versions of their software. And Ableton really only makes one product. Complete bullshit.

The important point is that Live's audio engine is sample based and not vector based. But without a vector based engine, extensions like Altivec, SSE, ... make no sense.
Beside that, it's true. I'm mostly lazy.

3)
Very probably we will announce something concerning the IntelMac on the NAMM show.

regards,
/Alex

detroitechno · Post by **detroitechno** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:32 am

I haven't read any of the 4 pages, so this may be out of line...

while testing osx86 on a few standard x86 machines, live either would not run, or run very poorly. I'm only posting to back-up what the original message noted.

Live does run horrible under rosetta emulation.

FireForEffect · Post by **FireForEffect** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:29 am

This is a big letdown I think. We were all pretty excited to get new fast macs and now it looks like another long wait for the developers to catch up and then of course by then a faster newer machine will come out. Ah..the joys of modern computing. Screw it, I guess I will get a refurb G5 imac.

Winterpark · Post by **Winterpark** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:30 am

what's another month or so?...

...really....

rush rush rush...

FireForEffect · Post by **FireForEffect** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:53 am

I have gigs the end of Feb, then I have to play a gig for Apple at the beginning of March...so I dont have a lot of time to wait for updates. If they update prior to that then great. Also I am concerned that none of my plugins will work unless they too are updated, that is a major problem.

kenn michael · Post by **kenn michael** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:27 am

LOFA wrote:Hi Kenn, My name is not actually Dave. In fact I didn't even write that. I was misquoted. WHo is Dave any way? My name is Hal, I mean Ian.

Sorry, I must've messed up the quoting...

jeskola · Post by **jeskola** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:15 am

no way... i just bought one

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:47 pm

Is it me, or did everyone in the thread completely miss and ignore what Alex just said

Alex wrote: 3) Very probably we will announce something concerning the IntelMac on the NAMM show.

like CLUE guys, CLUE

jeskola · Post by **jeskola** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:51 pm

Angstrom wrote:Is it me, or did everyone in the thread completely miss and ignore what Alex just said

Alex wrote: 3) Very probably we will announce something concerning the IntelMac on the NAMM show.
like CLUE guys, CLUE

check my post at the bottom of this http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32505

bizack · Post by **bizack** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:19 pm

The whole engine is sample-based? How? What about the Ableton Plug-Ins? Surely there is vector-based mathematics in those? And what about Operator? Is that sample-based (I'll be kinda bummed if you say yes)? Man, I'd be willing to help you guys Altivec (and SSE) your code, for free. Thanks for the honest feedback.

Alex wrote:Hi folks,

1)
I like this thread!

2)
bizack
Regarding the quote by Robert, that has to be some of the biggest bunch of bullshit. How well did they really test altivec code? As well as the beta and release version of Live 5? Why do all other programs that make use of vector processing significantly benefit from altivec optimization? Pure laziness. They probably goofed around for a few days and just said 'oh screw it, this takes too much time.' It's just laziness. Having to maintain two code bases for a $500 product? My God, I can't imagine having to maintain two code bases, like every single other company that makes Windows and OS X versions of their software. And Ableton really only makes one product. Complete bullshit.
The important point is that Live's audio engine is sample based and not vector based. But without a vector based engine, extensions like Altivec, SSE, ... make no sense.
Beside that, it's true. I'm mostly lazy.

3)
Very probably we will announce something concerning the IntelMac on the NAMM show.

regards,
/Alex

kj · Post by kj » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:37 pm

FireForEffect wrote:I have gigs the end of Feb, then I have to play a gig for Apple at the beginning of March...so I dont have a lot of time to wait for updates. If they update prior to that then great. Also I am concerned that none of my plugins will work unless they too are updated, that is a major problem.

I am thinking about buying a regular G4 PB just for that reason, by the time everything is here as a universal binary and stable, and the hardware platform is stable we are 2 years ahead and maybe then i'll buy a intel macbook i think.