Very OT, 9/11

[henry ford]

ha!...an IDF wet-dream

[Nod]

testing that image thing. I've always wondered myself.
cool

Indeed - and on that cinematic theme more oldies but goodies

[djshiva]

"So if we're not dealing with any huge military threat why is the US occupying a nation in the Middle East that has, by the lack of demonstrable evidence, had absolutely nothing to do with those perpetrating such acts?"

Liberalism=Mental Disorder.

Here is how I can tell if you are suffering from this disorder. If I show you a picture of Bin Laden and then a picture of George W...you will get more angry about Bush.

You only believe in terrorism in the abstract. If America would stop being big mean bullies everything would be ok right?

All of you socialists live your lives through the looking glass.

You really should get out more..maybe meet a girl or two.

oh ok enough already. in the interests of disclosure, i don't consider myself liberal (nor a socialist...capitalism and socialism BOTH require the mechanism of the state, which i think is the main problem). that said, to call it a mental disorder is really off the mark. how ridiculously simplistic. just as simplistic as people who ONLY kneejerk to blame bush, lumping anyone who considers themselves liberal into the same category and labelling it a disorder reduces an entire cross section of people to a patently untrue sterotype. grow up, and learn how to debate without sinking into a morass of name-calling and third grade bullshit.

i don't believe terrorism is abstract at all. i just have the ability to recognize it whether it's an arabic fundamentalist whackjob perpetuating it OR an american christian fundamentalist whackjob perpetuating it. america is NOT the only problem, but it does shove its weight around like a bully who just can't get enough of his own bloated pride. and right now, it's the one country with the biggest stranglehold on the rest of the world. to not recognize that, is to be completely out of touch with reality. how is it that we call people who fly planes into buildings terrorists, and not people who fly planes and bomb civilians? because we are brainwashed.

mass murder is mass murder, and i don't give a FUCK who does it. you don't get to justify it just because you're the big guy on the block. and to do so and then turn around and try to shove "morals" down people's throats as legislation is about the most hypocritical act i can think of.

for anyone to shout "immoral" at women having abortions and call them babykillers and to talk about the "evil" of terrorism and then turn around and bomb the shit outta brown children in another country, abdicates their right to call themselves moral people. to talk family values and then secure corporate profits at the expense of working families...that's immoral.

and yet, people like you defend them. all of them. and i am not just talking bush. clinton did it too, but only got crucified because there was the word "democrat" attached to his name. i think the whole lot of them can rot, because they are all in bed with greedy corporate bastards out to make a buck at the expense of the lives of other human beings.

so keep defending them. defend them to your grave. and keep namecalling anyone who considers this warmongering, greedy lot to be a sick bunch. because at the end of the day, our freedom will have come from knowing that we did not just do what we were told, and march lockstep to the war cries of rich terrorists. our freedom will have come because we resisted the call to murder in the name of greed.

[FireForEffect]

There seems to be no hope for you lot. Your ignorance runs deep. Are any of you older than say 25 by chance?? Perhaps someday you will be mugged by reality and then see the truth, although I would be more inclined to say you will grow up and continue reading Howard Zinn and Chomsky.

If you really think it is the same thing for people to fly a plane into a building of innocent people as it is to drop bombs on a military target(which in turn does sometimes kill innocents because our enemy has decided to hide behind innocents), then you are hopeless and we need not continue discussing anything. You are too backwards to even understand the basics of being a living thing..self protection. I suspect none of you have ever had to fight for anything...physical or otherwise. You are pacifists which would be kind of amusing if we weren't at war and lives were at stake. Before Jordan and I got on this thread it was you bunch of left wing wacks patting each other on the back and blathering on and on about various insane theories that have no basis in fact. That is ALWAYS how these threads go on this board. The entire subject of this thread is, in and of itself insane. When you start at crazy where is there to go but more crazy?

This is like talking to school children. I hope you guys are better at making music than you are at understanding and making logical thoughts about the world.

Here is the good news...people like you are NOT in charge of anything important(with the 9 Circuit Court in CA being the obvious exception). You are the fringe.

Oh, and it IS a mental disorder. There is no other explanation. Nothing else explains how an adult human could think the way some of you do.

Peace out bitches...I have an after party to play.

[djshiva]

the most amazing thing about human beings is our ability to rationalize ANYTHING.

imagine being more afraid of freedom than slavery.

oh by the way...this sounds like a TERRIBLE thing to be:

lib·er·al P Pronunciation Key (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.
Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

really...it's just so mentally wrong to give a shit about other people.

[Nod]

There seems to be no hope for you lot. Your ignorance runs deep. Are any of you older than say 25 by chance?? Perhaps someday you will be mugged by reality and then see the truth, although I would be more inclined to say you will grow up and continue reading Howard Zinn and Chomsky.

At least they can manage relatively joined up thinking unlike Strauss and Kristol - I assume, given their disciples are currently running your government, you are already familiar with their work and offshoot policy groups such as PNAC and that you understand that these people openly suggested well before 9/11 that a disasterous attack upon US soil could be exploited in the resulting foreign policy? They have had your POTUS's ear since long before 9/11.

If you really think it is the same thing for people to fly a plane into a building of innocent people as it is to drop bombs on a military target(which in turn does sometimes kill innocents because our enemy has decided to hide behind innocents), then you are hopeless and we need not continue discussing anything. You are too backwards to even understand the basics of being a living thing..self protection.

Can you tell me when, exactly and in as much detail as possible, the nation or armed forces of Iraq specifically attacked the United States neccesitating this act of 'self protection'? I'd like the exact dates, locations, numbers of military and civillian dead, technologies used, where the Iraqis landed (Eastern Seaboard, California or parachute drop into Utah etc) and what territories they took/lost or are still holding out in. What natural resources were they looking to secure first ie: did their crack Elite Republican Guard merely take the coffee shops before securing the perimeter and and installing hookas (no not that kind) or did they use their famed air force and navy/subs in sneak precision attacks from international waters following the classic Soviet doctrine? Did the huge numbers of expected insurgents, along the lines of Patrick Swayze in the appalling 'Red Dawn', have any impact against the attacking Iraqis?

I suspect none of you have ever had to fight for anything...physical or otherwise. You are pacifists which would be kind of amusing if we weren't at war and lives were at stake. Before Jordan and I got on this thread it was you bunch of left wing wacks patting each other on the back and blathering on and on about various insane theories that have no basis in fact. That is ALWAYS how these threads go on this board. The entire subject of this thread is, in and of itself insane. When you start at crazy where is there to go but more crazy?

As someone's Gonzo sig points out - when things get weird the weird get pro Again a serious question: can you direct me to any site on the net that specifically outlines, and bears investigation thereof, of confirmed Iraqi involvment in 9/11? Forget the lizards, the holograms, the laundered Nazi gold, the quite numerous assassinations to protect the Bush family and their investments, the bloodless judiciary coup that brought the increasingly senile idiot son to power, the demolition of the WTC's, the anomalous physics of the crash at The Pentagon that left an exit hole where nothing had apparently exited and a direct impact site that had unbroken windows 20ft away, fitting an entire 757 into a 16ft hole with the excuse that at least 12 tonnes of engines and supporting wings simply bounced off the outside facia, folded back into the fuselage and left no apparent damage whatsoever on the surface structure, the shooting down of Flight 93 and subsequent cover up etc etc - nevermind all those for now and let's just stick with the published facts surrounding the stated foreign policy.

Where's the evidence linking 9/11 and Iraq? Please could you post it FFE, or links to it, as it couldn't be more on-topic.

This is like talking to school children. I hope you guys are better at making music than you are at understanding and making logical thoughts about the world. Here is the good news...people like you are NOT in charge of anything important(with the 9 Circuit Court in CA being the obvious exception). You are the fringe. Oh, and it IS a mental disorder. There is no other explanation. Nothing else explains how an adult human could think the way some of you do.

Ever consider that a political spectrum requires something wider than monochrome? Is a one party corportate state, as Shiva suggests, pretending to be a hamstrung two party democracy actually any better than communism? Why should anyone keep quiet when there is clear wrongdoing, lies, corruption and mass murder on a huge scale led by a man who clearly isn't well and is merely a front for others extremely poor and short-sighted ideas? Ironically you label liberals as mentally ill whilst that man once more heads towards further conflict based on even flimsier bullshit than last time:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1693449,00.html

And here he is again doing a complete about face, I believe you term it flip-flopping, on his stated nuclear policy for the means of bribery:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4647956.stm

That's an issue that hasn't been raised - the fact the Neocon cabal/Blair/Howard etc cried wolf over a worldwide crisis that didn't really exist, Iraqi WMD, makes the one's that should receive attention that much harder to deal with, such as Iran, Israel, Sudan, N.Korea or the Pakistan earthquake, because they've totally undermined the whole process by criminal leadership. They're certainly clever people - they probably even calculated that risk and figured it would be worth it - to them. Wasn't it you who posted the figures that the war was comparatively cheap - so who's benefitting?

[FireForEffect]

Where to start with you guys. It is not easy to overcome a lifetime of indoctrination so I will give you the benefit that it isn't all you're fault for thinking the way you do. By the way, how many of you are even Americans? Frankly if you are not, I could give a rat's ass what your opinion of the US is anyway.

Now, this really is an exercise in futility, that much I have learned over the years..debating liberals is pointless. I will however respond to you nod. You have really dug yourself a rather large conspiracy hole haven't you? Your blathering about the Pentagon, well we will leave that all by its lonesome in la la land.

Now a little background, I personally think the Bush admin shouldn't have sold the Iraq war on WMD's, even though we know they were there(as do the Kurds and Iraqi people-firsthand) and that they were moved to Syria, that has been known for quite awhile now..the media of course doesn't like to report any story that would put Bush in a favorable light....and then we have this:

http://www.nysun.com/article/26514

Now regardless of that fact, AND the fact that Iraq had violated 16 UN resolutions since the Gulf War(and don't you lefties love the UN??)...we also have a connection between Saddam and 9/11.

Do a search on Dr. Laurie Mylroie, one of the foremost American scholars on Iraq and Saddam Hussein. She has provided substantial evidence implicating Saddam's involvement in four terrorist attacks: the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing; the 1995 bombing in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, the 1996 attack on the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, and the 1998 bombings of two African embassies.

She is a terrorism and intelligence expert...she was also Clinton's intelligence advisor on Iraq in 92. Here is a link for you CNN lovers from before the war even started..so don't accuse me of using a partisan source->

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/COMMUNITY/10/29/mylroie/

Now, why the administration hasn't brought this to light begs a few questions..for which none of us really know the answers. Same with the WMD's, we did find a hell of a lot of them but no giant cache with a "US or bust!" flag perched atop so it went more or less unnoticed.

The way I see it is that 9/11 was a serious wakeup call to the US government..Bush had to respond and quick. The US had been attacked multiple times (including the OKC bombing which was Mcveigh and Nichols working with islamic terror agents, but that is for another thread) and Clinton wouldn't deal with the problem. When Clinton was president he cut down the HUMINT budget to the point that our intelligence service abroad and especially in the middle east was a joke. Able Danger is a perfect example of the massive intelligence failure in our country that is the result of years of group think and partisan politics. Politics in the US used to stop at waters edge but no more. The modern Democrat party will except nothing less than the total failure of any war we enter and that is dangerous thinking to say the least.

A choice between Bush and someone who thinks like that is no choice at all. Like I said before, this would all be amusing if it wasn't for the fact that it is the duty of all islamofascists to KILL or convert every last one of us(and I do mean YOU, as I don't know of any muslims on this thread yet).

In hindsight it probably would have been better to start with Iran and Afghanistan, then Iraq, Syria etc. Oh, I notice none of you mention Afghanistan..yeah the country where women are now allowed to have jobs and go to school. What evil oppressors we Yanks are!

All of this makes no differance anyway..9/11 happened and we know who did it. Only freaks like you guys think otherwise. Keeping telling yourself you are right if it makes you feel quasi intellectual and oh so evolved. While you are pondering why the men who want to kill you are angry with you, I am more worried about the implications of the coming war with Iran...they have vowed a second holocaust and I wouldn't be surpised if they have already bought a nuke. Iran would LOVE to taunt Israel with a nuke and would love even more to use it..they would be the stars of the middle east if they did it.

The shit is going to hit the fan..and soon. Bush has some pretty big decisions to make. Iran cannot be allowed to have a nuke..that could very well spark a world wide war. If they get one, all the other nutjob nations will demand one as well. Mutually assured destruction would be..well assured. The logistics of attacking Iran presents a whole mess of other problems. They have a large army and it would take an extended bombing campaign to even dent their nuke facilities. They also have modern equipment(thanks Russia!), MIg 29's, brand new AA missles etc..which will make a conventional war with them very nasty. The best and least bloody scenario would be on overthrow of the government from inside..which is no doubt being organized as we speak. There are plenty of factions inside Iran that are friendly to the US...time to use them.

[pilcrow]

[12micsn1]

Thank GOD!! This very lucky intelligent secret master spy watch dog operative hasnt had good CENSOR-NUETERING or been brainwashed into a TRANSFORMER SMURFBOT (working soldier robot) by the Worldwide Neo-leftist Anti-Christian Pro Nazi-Communist-Socialist Fascist Pro-aborting Pornagraphy-inducing Violently Pro Homosexaul Mulit-culturalist Ethonocrat-Victimcrat Feminist Anti-American/Western Haters Globalist Movement. Which is circling the world with its subversive-seditious sewer rat brainwashing writing and rhetoric with its very slimey-sleazy bacteria infested filled greaseball heavy hidden hand agenda (the glove wearers). Only a few politically incorrect people outside the mainstream circle of fecal matter of destruction (SEWER SHIT) are well aware of having the knowledge-foresight to notice the real nightmare blantedly being expressed an carried out by this neo-dangerous freakishly mutating virus of this psychopathic-schoid global no-borders, language, culture-depopulation movement. How many ASSCLOWNS do i have to express this to before you you realize you are being subversively FUCKEDUP in the head?

[Nod]

Now, this really is an exercise in futility, that much I have learned over the years..debating liberals is pointless. I will however respond to you nod. You have really dug yourself a rather large conspiracy hole haven't you? Your blathering about the Pentagon, well we will leave that all by its lonesome in la la land.

Which was exactly the point in raising it in such a manner. I appreciate your response but I'm not looking for a discussion about theories - some of which may or may not hold water. What I am looking for however is the published documented proof from your government that Iraq was complicitly involved in 9/11. Your government did actually release verifiable information didn't it?

Now a little background, I personally think the Bush admin shouldn't have sold the Iraq war on WMD's, even though we know they were there(as do the Kurds and Iraqi people-firsthand) and that they were moved to Syria, that has been known for quite awhile now..the media of course doesn't like to report any story that would put Bush in a favorable light....and then we have this:

http://www.nysun.com/article/26514

Now regardless of that fact, AND the fact that Iraq had violated 16 UN resolutions since the Gulf War(and don't you lefties love the UN??)...we also have a connection between Saddam and 9/11.

Thank you for the link but could you specify where? Where is the proof, as surely released by the Administration, that Dick says he's seen? There must be the odd hundred page PDF of the official 'reasoning' behind the conflict outlining in extraordinary detail the specific links between the secular, and hence infidel, Saddam and the extremist sulafi al-Quaeda who, by all intelligence accounts, hated one anothers guts? Or even a public statement outlining the facts. May even have looked like a re-interpretation of:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/presaddress2.shtml

Do a search on Dr. Laurie Mylroie, one of the foremost American scholars on Iraq and Saddam Hussein. She has provided substantial evidence implicating Saddam's involvement in four terrorist attacks: the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing; the 1995 bombing in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, the 1996 attack on the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, and the 1998 bombings of two African embassies. She is a terrorism and intelligence expert...

First page up on Google:

"Iraq was behind the September 11th attack and Iraq is also behind the anthrax letters."

She's appears to be extremely partisan and and not quite the expert you promised. How exactly did the Iraqis, assuming it was them, get hold of the 'US specific', as per reports, weapons-grade strain of Anthrax - and not the antique Rumsfeld sold them back in 83-85 either - you'd think Laurie would be aware that such weapons can be tracked by specific strain to a specific lab wouldn't you? She does correctly state that Iraq is the only party known to have produced Anthrax with Bentonite - so obviously the Iraqis decided to signpost this well known fact by cooking up some of their most identifiable weaponry techniques and sending it, by snail mail , to Tom Daschle. It's so obvious when you think about it. Nevermind the enormous number of anthrax postal attacks - did they ever even reach double figures in order to deflect suspicion that it was an inside job given the particular strain? - or the fact that the welt of attacks simply dropped off the investigative radar of the media? Did Iraq/al-Quaeda simply run out of stamps?

From her book review: She is also the author of Study of Revenge: Saddam Hussein.s Unfinished War Against America (American Enterprise Institute Press, 2000). Published in paperback, as The War Against America (HarperCollins, 2001), the book was hailed by Deputy Secretary of Defense, Paul Wolfowitz: "argues powerfully"; and Richard Perle, former Assistant Secretary of Defense, "splendid and wholly convincing". With critical supporters like that, indeed even that nutjob Perle's now abandoned the ideas, her reputation as an objective source doesn't count for much and she appears, at first glance, to be simply yet another co-opted pro-Israeli Neocon scaremonging mouthpiece. Hey look she's even written another book with Scooters most trustworthy ride - Judith Miller! You can read more about her, and her views here:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/featur ... ergen.html

She is a terrorism and intelligence expert...she was also Clinton's intelligence advisor on Iraq in 92. Here is a link for you CNN lovers from before the war even started..so don't accuse me of using a partisan source->

She is completely partisan - much like the rest of her scummy friends she supported Saddam during his worst period of atrocities up until the point the weather changed in Washington and furthering her career changed that opinion.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/COMMUNITY/10/29/mylroie/

Now, why the administration hasn't brought this to light begs a few questions..for which none of us really know the answers. Same with the WMD's, we did find a hell of a lot of them but no giant cache with a "US or bust!" flag perched atop so it went more or less unnoticed.

I think you'll find her claims that Ramzi Yousef, amongst others, was an Iraqi intelligence agent hasn't exactly met with open arms in the intelligence community. The consensus, AFAIK, is her interpretations are tainted by ambition and, frankly, she appears to be blowing bubbles out of her arse and calling it factual. Much like the US suggestion that Atta met with Iraqi agents in Prague pre-9/11 - it's all hogwash.

A choice between Bush and someone who thinks like that is no choice at all. Like I said before, this would all be amusing if it wasn't for the fact that it is the duty of all islamofascists to KILL or convert every last one of us(and I do mean YOU, as I don't know of any muslims on this thread yet)

There is no such thing as an 'islamofascist' - merely a term, coined by the loony right-wing US press, of joining two frightening concepts together in the American mind. Strangely enough in much the same way as Iraq, 9/11 and al-Quaeda were.

In hindsight it probably would have been better to start with Iran and Afghanistan, then Iraq, Syria etc. Oh, I notice none of you mention Afghanistan..yeah the country where women are now allowed to have jobs and go to school. What evil oppressors we Yanks are!

What you mean that total and utter shambles outside of Kabul where the warlords rule, the heroin trade is doing record business and people who teach women are being shot and killed daily? You essentially annihilated the already pitiful infrastructure, bought off the prerequiste officials and, after abandoning the reconstruction effort bar a modest police force, now consider it to be 'cleansed'? What the US should've done, but can't because these disloyal morons have tied your economic fortunes to them, was invade Saudi - a nation you were actually on speaking terms with - or persuade them to move to full democracy immediately pending removal of US support. As I've stated that couldn't be done because they'd cut the balls off your economy faster than you could say Geronimo. The Saudi's provide the home, support and primary funding for much of what you would call 'terrorists' - and your current first family have been in bed with their current first family for years. Personally I'd get pretty tired of sleeping in the wet patch and start looking for some results.

All of this makes no differance anyway..9/11 happened and we know who did it. Only freaks like you guys think otherwise. Keeping telling yourself you are right if it makes you feel quasi intellectual and oh so evolved. While you are pondering why the men who want to kill you are angry with you, I am more worried about the implications of the coming war with Iran...they have vowed a second holocaust and I wouldn't be surpised if they have already bought a nuke. Iran would LOVE to taunt Israel with a nuke and would love even more to use it..they would be the stars of the middle east if they did it.

Do you really think that? Let's run this out: Iran has one or two nukes and somehow managed a detonation inside the Israeli border...what do you think the Israelis will do with the 200+ warheads they have been amassing illegally all the years? It is NOT in Iran's interest to pursue such a course even if it's leader is providing rhetoric to warm his populace by. Israel has already made, a frankly illegal, attack on a country who were pursuing the nuclear option they themselves had been hiding for so many years and are now, along with the US, threatening the same thing again. The Iranians - now surrounded by publicly threatening forces - are reacting the same way, and indeed possibly more calmly, as those threatening them would. They know a nuke is one threat that the Israelis, and their personal attack dog the US, will back down from.

The shit is going to hit the fan..and soon. Bush has some pretty big decisions to make. Iran cannot be allowed to have a nuke..that could very well spark a world wide war. If they get one, all the other nutjob nations will demand one as well. Mutually assured destruction would be..well assured. The logistics of attacking Iran presents a whole mess of other problems. They have a large army and it would take an extended bombing campaign to even dent their nuke facilities. They also have modern equipment(thanks Russia!), MIg 29's, brand new AA missles etc..which will make a conventional war with them very nasty. The best and least bloody scenario would be on overthrow of the government from inside..which is no doubt being organized as we speak. There are plenty of factions inside Iran that are friendly to the US...time to use them.

Agree with some of the above - but encouraging sedition after the US made such a pigs ear of it the last time? The situation with Iran is as a result of the self same policy. Will the US once again prompt the destablisation of a sovereign state and, assuming things turn nasty, merely abandon the revolutionaries to be slaughtered much like the Kurds in '91. Or will they use all their groovy WMD's to simply vapourise the population centres to stifle rebellion and long term attrition in much the same way as Japan? After all why has your POTUS has been chasing a legitimate, in his eyes only, premptive nuclear strike policy?

Again, politely and sincerely, may I ask you for the documented proof of Iraqi involvement in 9/11 as published by the Bush administration to the US public and I will respond to it?

[Nod]

Cool - can we get these MIDI retrofitted Pilcrow? These could be just the ticket for the custom Live controller we've all been looking for...

[noisetonepause]

Nod, the man likes Ann Coulter. There's no point.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ann_Coulte ... _and_Islam

[Nod]

Nod, the man likes Ann Coulter. There's no point.

Hi Paws - cheers for the informative link. However it's good to know that not all Republican commentators or even senators are extremist 'my country' loving devout wankers - the practical John Murtha is a very good example.

After reading her, quite clearly intellectually subnormal, vaginal monologues I'd pay to see Coulter attempt to take part in something that could actually be construed as a debate, outside the US, rather than simply regurgitating her bigotry & filth before a willingly ignorant & accepting audience. Actually it's one of the few occasions I can think of where I'm glad America has such a widespread gun culture as it increases the potential opportunity for accidents involving her.

[noisetonepause]

More Coulter - CANADA, BEWARE!

http://mediamatters.org/items/200412010011

I know not all Republicans are like her; I heard John McCain say, on the abuse and torture of 'terrorists' in Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, and elsewhere, that it's not about who they are, it's about who we are (and hence what's going on is unacceptable). Hammer, head, nail... Being what some would call "anti-life", I don't agree with everything McCain says, but that statement can do with repeating.

-Paws

[FireForEffect]

You have found the heart of the problem with people like you and I trying to debate..if you want to call it that.....any source or facts I present will be summarily dismissed as "partisan". There is no way to move forward. If anything was published by the Bush admin you would say its partisan so what is the point? Jordan or I could easily bury you in facts but you would still poke your head out from the top and declare that its all partisan. As I said, you are hopeless. If you want we can go around for another 30 pages but you will still think 9/11 was a secret government plot and I , and most other normal people will think you are insane.

I love Ann Coulter...I agree with her more often than not. She certainly is an expert at getting you lefties all riled up.

Ah McCain..the GOP's top RINO.

Just admit the real truth..you want America to fail..you want America to fall so she can be "taught a lesson"..it brings you joy to hear of US soldiers killed doesn't it? You guys are pathetic and should be ashamed of yourselves. You hate America, you hate Israel and apparently everything else to do with western culture. Just a thought...what has the arab culture given to the world? What has western culture given? Down with western culture! Lets all go back to the 7th century!

And of course you are more upset about panties on the head of a terrorist than the beheadings and murder of Americans. More signs of mental disorder.


You say Bush lied to go to war...In doing so, you conveniently overlook the fact that if Bush lied, a long list of liberal icons have also been lying for a very long time, some from before the time he arrived in the Oval Office.
Clinton fired cruise missiles and put his faith in what we now know was a corrupt and ineffectual U.N. sanctions regime in a fruitless effort to keep Saddam in a box. Only the blindly partisan, the ignorant and the gullible can subscribe to the belief that Bush — and, somehow, Bush alone — lied about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. I invite you to explain these quotes->



"Urges the President to take all necessary and appropriate actions to respond to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
— Text of Senate Concurrent Resolution 71, Jan. 28, 1998, co-sponsored by Democrats Tom Daschle, Patrick Leahy, Max Cleland, John Kerry and Robert Byrd, among others.


"(Iraq) admitted, among other things, an offensive biological warfare capability — notably 5,000 gallons of botulinum, which causes botulism; 2,000 gallons of anthrax; 25 biological-filled Scud warheads; and 157 aerial bombs. And might I say, UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq has actually greatly understated its production."
— Text of President Clinton's address to Joint Chiefs of Staff and Pentagon staff, Feb. 17, 1998


"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology, which is a threat to countries in the region, and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
— Press release from Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., Dec. 16, 1998

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
— From an address by Al Gore to the Commonwealth Club of California, Sept. 23, 2002


"The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last four years ... he has continued to build those weapons."
— Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, Oct. 9, 2002


"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years."
— Floor statement of Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, vice chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Oct. 10, 2002


"Under Saddam's rule, Iraq has engaged in far-reaching human rights abuses, been a state sponsor of terrorism and has long sought to obtain and develop weapons of mass destruction."
— Statement from the Web site of Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, dated 2002


"I consider the prospect of a nuclear-armed Saddam Hussein who can threaten not only his neighbors, but the stability of the region and the world, a very serious threat to the United States."
— Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York at a Jan. 22, 2003, press conference."
---------

Oh and Tucker Carlson's comment "Without the U.S., Canada is essentially Honduras, but colder and much less interesting" is pretty damn hilarious.