MIDI BUG causing latency

Nod · Post by **Nod** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:58 pm

*re-re-re-re bump*

Any word on some progress on this issue?

deckme(N)tal · Post by **deckme(N)tal** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:12 pm

I found a workaround with the latency when recording midi:
create one midi track with your midi device in, your vst and monitor set to IN
create another empty midi track with the same device in and monitor set to OFF (no vst required in this track)
Arm both tracks to record and proceed recording.
Your midi clip recorded in the vst midi track will be without latency.
It seem that if live has got one of the recording midi track with monitor to off, this will eliminate latency.
You DON'T have to switch clips between tracks....only be sure to have one empty midi track recording at the same time you are recording your vst clip.
It is really weird...i just recognized this by case yesterday...
Please give a try...
live version is 5.03
thanks

icedsushi · Post by **icedsushi** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:44 pm

I'm not sure I understand why you guys are bumping & still trying to do workarounds. This bug was fixed as of 5.0.3. Or are you talking about the rewire problem now?

Nod · Post by **Nod** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:57 pm

icedsushi wrote:I'm not sure I understand why you guys are bumping & still trying to do workarounds. This bug was fixed as of 5.0.3. Or are you talking about the rewire problem now?

Hi Sushi - maybe it's just me (and hence need my own thread) but I'm definitely noticing some major (+100ms) latency in large projects, in 5.03, even with my ASIO buffers down to 64 or 128. As regards the actual MIDI recording latency someone made a post about a workaround involving two channels with monitoring set to in and out respectively - I gave it blast and could clearly see the differences in clip view.

As I said it could just be my settings are wrong - I always have to allow for the fact that I'm merely a highly advanced caveman with tools way beyond his means

icedsushi · Post by **icedsushi** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:46 pm

Hmm....don't know what you could be experiencing there. 100ms is huge!

Anyway, ever since they fixed this bug, timing has been pretty rock solid here.

Would be nice if they could get monitor AUTO and monitor OFF exactly identical in timing, but it's really really close, so I'm not going to raise hell about it I guess.

The only time I personally have recording midi timing problems now is when I'm pushing my CPU too high. But there's no way to expect accurate timing when you're on the verge of crackling and the tempo slowing down or glitching as the computer tries to keep up.

kineticUk · Post by **kineticUk** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:58 pm

I am still noticing the latency even with 5.0.3
I can reproduce the problem @ 6% CPU so no fix here
I only have the problem if it is an external midi instrument I try to record.
But I still get the gap and have to manually adjust the start point.
Monitor situation makes no difference and latency settings are all set and correct

icedsushi · Post by **icedsushi** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:27 pm

Why don't you post the details of your problem and list a specific scenario? External midi instruments will always have latency that can be compensated manually or aligned by sending midi events early, but can't be avoided (as you already know I am sure!). And no software program will know how much to compensate for a hardware instrument unless you tell it how much.

Are you 100% sure, this is this an additional latency in the recorded clips, not just a result of regular midi latency? Is it from playing midi notes and recording them into a midi clip, or is it playing an external synth from a midi clip that's already recorded? Then, are you recording it to a midi clip or an audio clip? A whole lot of confusion and vagueness on this page.

You guys would get more helpful replies, and people could try to reproduce the problem if you post the details.

1.) If you are playing the external synth manually and recording your performance directly to an audio clip, monitoring selection (choosing software monitoring or direct monitoring) absolutely WILL affect the timing.

2.) If a midi clip is "playing the synth" and it's being recording into an audio clip, in 5.0.3 monitoring should not significantly change the timing of the resulting audio clip. The monitoring selection will only affect what comes out of the speakers during the recording.

kineticUk · Post by **kineticUk** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:43 am

Sorry sushi I was a bit vague.
Basically the only problem I notice which I dont understand is the way live cuts ext drms -> audio clips.Internally this works great say I have a breakbeat in a clip which plays impulse.But when it plays an external drum machine and I try to record it to audio in a nicely cut clip, it sort of misses and adds silence at the beginning of the clip.
How should I compensate for this extra latency ? (done the latency test lesson)
I appreciate any advice.

Beatworld · Post by **Beatworld** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:22 am

I hope this is the right thread for this...I think it is.

So I have Impulse in a midi track and say 6 audio tracks.

I record a kick track in Impulse via Edirol PCR30.

Of course when played back to kick is out of sync with the other tracks but if I adjust the track delay setting by 100ms for the Impulse track its in sync with audio tracks.

Then I decide in a moment of inspiration to add some snare.

So I record a snare part on the same Impulse midi track.......and when I play it back the snare is now out of sync.

So what am I meant to do. I guess I have to put the 100ms delay on the midi track back to zero to record the snare.....which means I some how have to try and record the snare part with the kick being out of sync.

Any help would be appreciated.

Don't tell me I should record the kick and snare at the same time because that is no solution in my mind.

Thanks

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:52 am

but how about recording the snare on a second track, then it could have it's own delay setting.

set up as many midi tracks as you need, all sending their midi output to the impulse track

Beatworld · Post by **Beatworld** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:00 am

Thanks longjohns for the idea....that had dawned on me but I was hoping there was a way did not require using a seperate track for each midi voice....

Looks like that will have to do for now.

Perhaps some fix for midi latency issue in next version will solve bigger issue.......then again....

cheers

danbeaulieu · Post by **danbeaulieu** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:03 pm

runs fine on my system

ericbass · Post by **ericbass** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:26 am

Hi

I suffer with the same problem - recording the audio from external synths/drum machines, whilst playing them from a midi clip, results in a delay at the start of the new audio clip. This obviously makes a mess of sync on drums and percussion!

Same thing when recording the output of Impulse.

I've got a workround for both - they work for me, so it's not my fault if they don't work for you!!

Basically, for external stuff, you measure the delay you're getting at the start of the affected audio clips - and then enter it into the track delay box for every channel. I've simplified the process below. It's slightly different for the internal stuff like Impulse - skip to the bottom for that.

EXTERNAL SYNTHS/MODULES:-

First of all you need to measure the delay (it's different for each of the monitor modes, so stick to the AUTO setting on the midi clip and the audio clip). The delay on my system is 18ms.

1. Make a 1 bar midi clip that plays a nice clicky percussion sound on your external module - 4 beats will do.

2. Record your module's output as an audio clip.

3. Double click the audio clip and turn off warp mode in the sample display.

4. Zoom in on the start of waveform. If there's a big gap before it starts, this is what we'll measure.

5. In the sample display, under 'start' there are 3 boxes for the sample start point - click inside the third box and drag your mouse until the start marker lines up with the beginning of the sample in the display window.

6. Read the number in the box you've just been dragging in - this is your 'magic number', for want of a better term!

7. Enter your magic number into the track delay box in the mixer section. Do this before you record into a slot.

8. Make sure that Delay Compensation is enabled on the Options menu (it makes a difference - don't know why).

9. Record your track.

10. You should find that the gaps at the start of the audio have gone AND that midi and audio play in perfect sync.

11. NOTE - it might sound out of sync during recording, but don't worry - it will be ok on playback.

12. Enter that magic number for EVERY channel (although it doesn't seem to affect midi going out to external gear).

13. Sorted!

RECORDING THE OUTPUT OF IMPULSE/SIMPLER:

1. You will be happilly playing along now, with your magic number entered on each track...

2. But, to record the Impulse/Simpler to an audio track...

3. Set the Track Delay to zero for both the midi track AND the audio track!

4. When you finish recording, set the track delay to what it was beforehand.

5. Job done!

Hope this helps some of you - it was giving me a bad headache.

Ableton tech-people - please fix it! It should do all this stuff by itself!!!!

Happy regards

Eric

ericbass · Post by **ericbass** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:47 am

Don't forget to set the track delay to zero before rendering any tracks to disk, or you'll end up with a gap on the start of your file!

This is a real pain :-/

Daduk · Post by **Daduk** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:38 pm

Once again help please!!!!

I arm a midi track, record a clip. Then I press start so the midi-clip triggers my external synth for about 3 or 4 loops it works good but then it looks like the clip does not send midi-notes any more.. or much to late and not every note!!!!

What can this be?!! Is it midi-feedback as you guys said earlier but then again my NordRack is in local off mode so I don't think that's the problem.

I am not sure where it's best to post this so for this only time I post it in two threads, hoping I find the sollution..

Thanks again.

Daduk

MIDI BUG causing latency

runs fine on my neKo

Workround (PC + v5.0.3)

One more thing...